Gasping and heaving arrowhead

[Armadillo]

Hi you guys. I really hope you can help.

We've bought a young arrow head puffer (T. suvatii) two days ago and he's heavily gasping/heaving since yesterday night. He mainly lies on the (fresh-water sand) substrate, so that's reassuring (I've read that was their normal behaviour). He is still active and play swith the airwand, which is really fun to watch btw.

Here's all the context info.

Tank size
He's quite young (only about 6cm long, excluding the tail), so we've put him in a 12G long. We're planning our upgrade to a 20G.

Cycling:
It's a brand new tank (we hadn't planned on getting him, and as you know, they're a catch so we took him in although we had no cycled tank). To compensate for that, the tank is heavily filtrated (although not too much current): there's the filter that came with the tank + a filter that was in use in another tank of ours (to precipitate cycling) + an external filter. We've also put in a couple of panty-hose bags with established gravel at opposite ends of the tank, to help with the cycling. We're testing the water daily and we'll do a 50% water change at the slightest trace of ammonia/nitrite. We've had him two days, with one 50% water change this morning (although there was under 15 nitrates, and no n'ite/a'nia). We've consciously put water back in that's the same temp as the tank water, so I don't think the problem is temp difference.

PH, temp and conditionner
PH is 8.0 and tank temp was 24C according to the thermometer, but felt really cold to the touch. I have just increased the thermostat a couple of degrees I think it's about 26C now, but I have done this after we noticed the symptoms.

We condition the water with EasyLife Liquid Filter, which I believe is only available in Europe. I have also mixed a couple of drops of Vitachem to his new water since I've noticed his problem.

Other symptoms
He's got some light finrot, which I think is fungal but it's difficult to tell. The finrot has gotten worse since yesterday, but still not dramatic.

Also, when he plays in the bubble wand, he 'nearly' flashes, in that he behaves like a dog that shakes water off itself once in a while, but it's not as sudden as a proper flash spasm. So I don't actually know whether he's itching or just playing.

Changes since last OK
The two cut panty-hoses holding the substrate: could it be releasing residue of washing powder used to clean the panty hoses when they were still used as clothing?

My husband left the plants with the pots and cotton wool (which I am against, but he insists on that). Could it be some toxin that's released by the plastic pot or cotton?

Could it be the temperature was too low and he was weakened by the stress of moving and got an infection?

Hope you guys can help. Sorry about the long post, but, you know, every bit of info might put you in the right track. Looking forward to your responses.

 

[Armadillo]

Oh, and I forgot: I have removed the pantyhose this morning, and I have removed the plant pots. Oh, and the water is oxygenated with a bubble curtain wand.

 

[Nick660]

Sounds like you've got everything covered.

I doubt there was anything bad in the aquatic plant pots. Presumably you rinsed the pantyhose thoroughly before putting them in the tank so probably no harm there IMO.

Maybe it's possibly stressed from the move, especially if it hadn't been in the LFS long before you picked it up.
I don't know much about these fish but it appears they like enough sand to bury themselves in.
Also, possibly there was a big difference between your water and the water it came from. Did you acclimatise it slowly to your water? pH 8.0 doesn't sound ideal for it but most fish seem able to adapt given time.

You probably will just have to give it time now, watch the water quality closely, and hope for the best.
(Hopefully someone with experience of this species will comment soon).

Good luck

 

[Merbeast]

pH is high, is that tap water? Have you added salt? Remember, they are freshwater and like a more neutral pH.

 

[Armadillo]

Thanks so much for your responses.

With such a long post, you wouldn't think that I managed to forget to mention acclimation, would you? Doh to me. So here goes: we acclimated him with our turkey baster. He was in a bag with a lot of water from the LFS, so we 'squirted' new (conditionned tank water) in the bag every 5 minutes or so for about 40 mins. Before that, we'd let the open bag float for temp acclimating for about 10 mins. The transport and getting the tank set up took ages, though, but wouldn't he have been showing signs of being upset right away, then? I don't get why he's now acting up, after a couple of days.

The more I look at his behaviour, the clearer it becomes: he is in a lot of pain. That is what this panting looks like. Either that, or asphyxiation somehow.

I tried to turn off each of his electrical appliance to see whether the electro-magnetic fields could somehow stress him out, but he showed no difference.

Oh, and pH 8.0 is actually pretty ideal according to a few of our sources. They like 7.8 to 8.0.

And we didn't add any salt (that's exactly the behaviour of a fw fish in sw, actually), but it's good to get confirmation that he's 100% fw. That's what we've read, but the more confirmation the better.

I wonder if the sand substrate that I rinsed in our every day pans could be the culprit? We clean our pans with washing up liquid, and the sand was in contact with those.

I'm filling up the hospital tank and I'll wait for my husband to come home to see if he wants to take the decision to move him there to see if he spots any changes. I don't want the responsibility of him dying of stress on me at his 3rd move in recent days.

 

[Nick660]

If you rinsed your sand out with plenty of water using those pans I can't see that being an obvious problem either. Does the water in the tank look clear?

Sounds to me like you've just about thought of everything. I can't see what more you could have done.

Sorry I can't come up with anything more to help

 

[Armadillo]

Oh don't apologise, Nick. I appreciate your help. It's good to have a sounding board who can at least tell me am being ridiculous if am going completely off track. I appreciate the time.

Yeah. we rinsed the sand like mad. Damn, I was hoping that was the problem.

Oh, and to answer a previous question about pH: yep, my tap water is 8.0, lucky me (not). This is actually near-idea for this fish, but I hate putting all my other tanks through it (that's another story, though).

So now am thinking gill parasites maybe? But he's not really hanging at the surface, and that's what they normally do. Can you think of anything else that could cause panting? it's so severe it looks like he's about to have a heart attack.

Last time I saw that behaviour I'd plopped a molly in a tank that was 7 degree (C) higher than her tank of origin. I felt soooo careless. Anyways, obviously not what's happenign.



I really need a . Am really worried about our guy.

 

[Armadillo]

Right. Husband's home now and he's decided to treat with a broad spectrum antibacterial/antiparasitic/antifungus (eSHa2000). I am against treating without known cause, but it's his fish, and we've explored a lot of options and we're none the wiser. I really hope this works.

He spent so much time and money getting this fish to feel at home, and I understand they're a bit of a rare find. That plus it's a really personable fish that I would love to get to know.

 

[Nick660]

If it's sudden onset my immediate thoughts (like yours) would be something toxic in the water, a sudden water parameter change, or low oxygen. I would imagine gill parasites to cause a more gradual deterioration as the infestation progresses.

My initial response would be to test the water, ensure plenty of aeration, and do an emergency 50% water change.
If its a toxin then hopefully you'd expect to see an improvement, but of course, if there's something about your water that it doesn't like then things could possibly get worse!

In the past I bought some young Hoplo catfish which within 24hrs began showing signs of distress (agitation, snatching air from the surface, ragged fins) after being introduced into my community tank. I did an emergency water change which only seemed to make things worse and they quickly died (no other fish in the tank had any problems). After thinking it over, the only cause I could come up with was the fact that the LFS they came from was going through a change of ownership and the tanks appeared somewhat neglected. I didn't test the water in the bag but in hindsight I suspect it could well have been very low pH and high nitrate. The resulting osmotic shock of a sudden change to much cleaner water, which was then diluted even further, was the cause of death!

If you can't make a definate diagnosis and things don't inprove then I suppose the final course of action is some sort of broad acting medication.

Good luck with your little guy, I'll keep my fingers crossed for him.
In the meantime, here's a

 

[Armadillo]

Hi Nick. Thanks so much for taking the time. We did exactly as you said (great fish-minds think alike, hey!).

Water testing: nitrate/nitrite/ammonia = 0. We're sure of our tests as we have the liquid test kit and we're getting pretty handy at them with all our tanks, LOL. The reason it's all 0 is that my tap water is 0 nitrate, and he's just been in his tank for 2 days, during which we did 2 water changes. He doesn't seem upset or stressed when we do water changes. He just ignores us. We pour the water back in with a watering can so it doesn't disturb the fish/substrate.

Aeration: we got him a bubble wand (with which he's playing a lot when he's not down, which is really cool to watch) immediate on getting him as we knew he needed much aearation. It's a 12G. Do you reckon another airstone? I am a little conscious of oxygen oversaturation.

50% water change: I did that when I thought it was some kind of toxic shock, but it did not bring any improvement. It didn't make things worse either. Mind you, if the problem is soap residue in the substrate, then it wouldn't. My husband has decided against moving him to the hospital tank (i.e. away from his current substrate) as he doesn't want to stress him.

Medication: We decided to medicate him, which I hate to do without a proper diagnostic, but hey. We're using eSHa2000, which is extremely broad spectrum. That was a couple of hours ago and so far, no improvement.

Your theory of the excessive difference in water pollutants from the bag to the aquarium has really got me thinking. We did acclimate him, but not with drip acclimation. And he had to stay in his bag (albeit large) for over 1.5 hour while we were buying the setup, getting home and setting up the tank.

Thanks for your well wishes. I'll keep you up to date. Any other suggestions or ideas, let me know.