German Blue Ram Breeding "Journal"

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
I must be the lucky one, then! =D I just buy maybe $5 worth and keep them in a little shallow tub, and then take a pipette full and feed the fish. I feed this GBRs with one of these exact tools:
pipette.jpg


It's easier, and it lets me see how much they eat, and still be exact. There's little measurements in the side, and I usually feed 3mL of live brine shrimp at a time. It's gotten to the point where if I put the pipette in the water, the fish attack it. ^^ I think it's hilarious seeing a brine shrimp scurry around the tank for days without getting eaten, and then get snatched up as a snack.
 
As expected, there's now eggs again. I will try to get pictures sometime tomorrow, because it's late now, and I don't feel like fiddling with it before I go to bed. They've chosen a new spot now. Behind/in-between two large Amazon Sword plants. As last time, there appears to be more eggs than the previous batches. Seems like they're breeding once a week like clockwork. I plan to let the fry stay with the parents for quite some time, and see how that works out. If I see it's going negativly, I will remove the next batch once they're free swimming for 2 days. I kind of really don't want to rear the fry myself. I would rather it be as natural as possible in the confines of an aquarium, and let the parents skills and instincts shine, rather than my own doings. But, afterall, I would like to keep some of the first sucessful batch, so some will be removed when I feel comfortable enough to do so.
 
The rams are never going to raise their fry. They will continue to eat their spawns. You will have to artificially hatch the eggs separately. The easiest way is to use a tank set up with a 1/2 inch of fine sand and have many flat smooth rocks slightly sand covered. They will expose the rock then lay their eggs on it.
Remove the eggs and place them in a bare bottom tank as described below with methylene blue or acriflavine to prevent fungus.

Rams spawn very easily but their fry are quite difficult to raise. They have zero tolerance for ammonia and nitrite. First foods should be small. Vinegar eels are a good starter food then microworms and at about six days they can all take bbs.

Use very shallow water(4 inches) and about a ten gallon tank for the fry. You will start with over 300 fry. The purpose of very shallow water is to keep the fry and their food in close proximity. Change half the water every day. Use water that matches what they are and in aged over night. Initially all you need is an air stone running gently. Once the are on bbs increase the depth of the water slowly over a few days to 8 inches. Be sure you have an established sponge filter to put into operation once the water is brought up to about 6 inches. Absolute cleanliness is essential at all times for rams.
Just continue to feed bbs and water changes. Once they are about 1/4 inch and look like little rams spread them out so stocking levels are about 3/4 gal per fish. Otherwise nitrites will rise and the fry will die. If you don't thin them down you will stunt them and they will die like flies until you are left with about one per 3/4 gal.

Rams do not do well on anything but live and frozen foods. If they take some prepared foods fine but they should not be forced to. They will just die.
Rams rarely live past 2-1/2 years. Breeding and raising rams is very different than Convicts. Ram fry are more difficult to raise than Discus. I have raised thousands of both and Discus are much easier of the two because discus feed their fry for you for the first week then bbs can be added to their diet.
It can take a long time to get a feel for raising ram fry so don't get too discouraged. They are much more difficult to get through the first month than other SA Dwarf Cichlids. Only Dicrossus filamentosus, the Lyre Tail Checkerboard Cichlid and black water Apistogramma species eggs and fry are more difficult than rams. Bolivian Rams are much easier for the beginner.
 
Wow, thanks for all the advice! I may as well kind of start out with the hardest, eh? I kind of planned to check out Discus next. Not a big scale breeding project like you have, just a single pair, and see how I do. As far as cleanliness is concerned, I'm set there. I have a large number of established sponges ready to go at a moments notice, and I've been doing daily 50%+ water changes on some other tanks for months now.

As for the feeding, I think I'm set. These rams have only been fed prepared foods twice, and that was in a tight situation. They're usually fed frozen mysis, bloodworms, brine shrimp, daphnia, live daphnia, brine shrimp, and finely chopped earthworms. So far, they're doing alright, and spawning every week like clockwork has to be a good sign, right?

As for some spawning questions: I've talked to alot of people about breeding these Rams, and many of them said their Rams spawned on a flat surface (usually a rock) when their substrate was a sandy type. However, when I spoke to people using Flourite as a substrate for plants, like I am, they said their rams spawned only on the substrate, even given many flat surfaces, including rocks, to lay their eggs on. Mine seem to be the same. I have many flat rocks, not to mention plant leaves if they so chose, but they always chose the substrate (Flourite). I attribute this to camoflauge, as their eggs blend well with the Flourite substrate, but wouldn't as well on a rock. Obviously, this makes removing the eggs very difficult, if not clearly impossible. I'd like to try it in the future, maybe on a different tank with a sandy substrate. I wouldn't mind moving the fry once they're free swimming, but I'd like to avoid hatching the eggs myself as much/long as possible. I just don't feel comfortable enough at this point in doing that. What do you think the chances are the parents could raise their fry up until atleast free swimming? These two are wild caught incase it makes a difference.

Also, I've heard and seen cases of the Blue rams raising their fry, atleast for a couple weeks, without assistance. I understand it's a slim chance, but I'm hoping I can get lucky. I'm curious to know why you say this isn't going to be the case? I'm sure you'll turn out to be correct (after all, you've bred them sucessfully, I have only gotten eggs), but I'm interested in the reasons on why this could be?

And I don't see myself getting discouraged any time soon. I have a very steady supply of high quality breeder-supplied rams, and as these have quickly become my favourite fish, I don't see myself giving them up anytime soon, even if I fail to raise a spawn. Funny, considering this tank was supposed to be a "plant holding tank". A temporary tank setup to keep my plants alive until I could put them someplace in a planned aquascape.
 
Dread,
The secret to breeding fish is to give them what they want and need.
The Blue rams do prefer a smooth rock that THEY uncover. They cannot dig easily in flourite and so they do what they can and lay their eggs in the pit.
If they allow their eggs to hatch the very small larvae fish will sift down into the flourite and die.
I do believe wild rams are the most likely to raise their fry than the farmed rams but not in a ten gallon tank. Because they are wild they are more demanding of an environment that they will feel more secure in. I recommend nothing smaller than a 20 Long, change to fine sand and bury many smooth rocks so they are barely visible. Then they will clean one off and lay their eggs on it. They will dig other pits that they will use to bed down their fry at night.
The first time I successfully raised rams was 1970. During the past 37 years and hundreds of spawns I have had one pair of Gold Rams, one time only, actually raise their young. Nearly 400 fry were the results. They ate all subsequent spawns like most rams do on the next day after spawning. I have known many others who have raised rams but I haven't met anyone who has done naturally. I know that others have but I am being honest with you when I say it is extremely rare.
Keep in mind that Rams die frequently for no apparent reason. This is one reason why it is wise to hatch one batch artificially first so if you lose one or both of the pair you will have plenty of replacements. Rams don't live long but they also mature fast so it isn't long before your own fry can begin spawning.
This way you still have plenty of pairs to continue to work with and of course the present pair until they die. They can look fine and be dead the next day so don't take it for granted that your pair will be around long. It is not very easy to find wild rams to replace them. Having your own first generation young rams as back up is just good insurance. They are as good as wild but with the advantage the are not likely to be carrying the parasites your wild fish are carrying. ALL wild fish have parasites.
Their you are, I have shared the fundamentals of breeding and raising rams successfully. The rest depends on whether you go with your fishes preferences and needs or wish to swim up stream.
You can find more information and ask other experienced breeders questions at www.apistogramma.com where experts hang, www.thecichlidforum.com, and www.thecichlidroomcompanion.com. I just check out the MFK forum once and a while.
 
Thanks again for all the information, it will be a great help now and in the future. Maybe I will continue to keep this pair how they are, and purchase another Wild Caught pair, and raise them in a spare 20long I will soon have and do everything you have suggested. I appreciate your honesty, it's been of great help, and from two posts I've already learned loads. I'm in a good position for quality rams 9both tank-bred and wild caught) because of friends that are breeders, as well as a LFS that will order me a continous supply of wild rams. If these two drop dead tomorrow, I will be distraught, but I understand that they often have a sort've... SRDS.. Sudden Ram Death Syndrome.

As for another questions, I have a couple I was thinking about. Would a lone wild-caught pair in a 55g tank, setup to their standards, of course, have a decent chance of raising fry on their own, atleast to the free swimming stage? I've seen countless videos and talked to many people in my local area, who have purchased their Rams at the same places I have that have had their rams raise their own fry - but it was in a much larger than than what I am currently using. So would a larger tank up my chances for as close to natural fry raising as possible?

And I know what you mean about the forums. :D Every forum I'm on, you're there, too. Simply Discus, Cichlid-Forums, Apistogramma.com, and I think even Finarama, and PlanetCatfish and not to mention here. I think there's more, but I'm at school right now, and so I don't have access to my favourites list with all the forums I'm a member of.
 
Alright, well I just got home... and I got some bad news.

The male ripped the **** out of the female. Alot of her fins are tattered, and she doesn't seem to have much use out of one of her pectoral fins, and he had some tattered fins as well, but his aren't too bad. So.. the female has moved to a 55g tank with a Krib, bristlenose, and a Bolivian ram. The water parameters definately aren't favorable for her, but I figure it beats the hell out of.. well, getting the hell beat out of you. The male remains in the 10g tank. I may reintroduce the pair into a more specially designed tank, like apistomaster suggested above one the injurys have healed (hopefully that happens, and the female doesn't die). This could very well take a while.. so I'm kind of thinking about putting this on hold, and starting something as a little side project with some cheap-o easy to breed fish (except livebearers and convicts). I don't really have too many ideas, so if anyone wants to chime in, you're more than welcome.
 
man tha sux about what happend to ur female and hope she gets better but next time you will lern to use a bigger tank so they can breed and have more room to freely swim
 
Alright alright. So, today I ordered an ADA C02 Kit, which I've been meaning to for a long while (can be seen here). 20 minutes after the order went through, the status turned to "Out of Stock".. so I think I got the last one! So, plants will now be grown hi-tech. Full "proper" Coralife lighting system, good fertilizers (Seachem Flourish line, full) and a pressurized C02 System (the ADA setup). Thus, I feel more confident putting the two fish back together again, because plants will grow very rapidly, providing more hiding spots in case of a fight. Both of their little wounds have healed fully, the female has colored up (male never lost colors), and has been inher own seperate 10g since seperation. Both tanks have the same water chemistry. The female's stomache is a bright rose color now, and she's quite plump, so I suspect she's filling with eggs. Hopefully this alone will be enough for the male to settle down with her atleast once more. I'll be attempting to put them back together sometime after dark, when the tank light is off. I figure I can ninja her in under the veil of darkness, while the male is asleep, and he will wake up and accept her presence. It's worked in the past for other fish, so I'm hoping for the best.
 
So last night I re-introduced the pair. There was no aggression physically, and I couldn't tell if they were signalling each other as a sign of aggression or as courtship. The male immediately courted the female when I first bought her, so I wasn't sure which was the case this time. The male got very very dark, and flapped his fins really hard at her while swimming sideways, and the female did the same, except her colour stayed about the same. There's been no nipping or gesturing since. The females colours finally "popped" and it seems BOTH of their vigor is increased now that they're together insted of alone. The female's rose-coloured belly is showing a great deal more than I remember it before. So far, so good. I can easily see eggs in the near future.
 
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