Getting busted for illegal fish ??

[Tequila]

(Keeping them in the US has nothing to do with being CB and chippped. It has to do with them being endangered in the wild. So until breeders start kicking back animals, that won't change)

??????????

The USA is the greatest market regardless of what your selling, If your product is something that you know will sell in the US, then you do whatever you need to do too sell that item there period! You honestly believe that if that was all it would take, that every major farming operation wouldn't do that so that they could to improve the wild population? Hence allowing them to promote their product in the USA.

As I understand it now, breeders must give back regardless of how little, in order to keep there licenses/permits. I maybe wrong, but it's what I have read, and I do know people that have tried to get into the orinimental fish producing business in the US and abroad. And I have done alot of the research for them. I also know people that have faced various charges, including the Lacy Act. Maybe not exactly for fish but just the same. I've seen Judges laugh when charges where presented to them, and state there's no way I'm gonna sentence someone to jail time for this, not happening. Prosecutor - well how about a fine $20000, Judge: are you serious, not happening either!

I have heard about alot of (hear say) projects of people keeping CITES Appendix I animals, fish, reptiles and or insects, that breed and sell these "Protected Endangered Species" here in the great USA, (heck I can point you in the direction of a well known shop that sells Appendix I green pitcher plants, why?, because the reproduce them here in the USA. There are several breeders and or attempting breeders or keepers of Appendix I Malagasy Spider Tortoise (Pyxis arachnoidsspecies) all over the USA. That have little if any problems from USFW or CITES personnel.

The whole idea that we here in the US can't have CB Asian Aro's because the wild population is threatend or endangered is totally insane! There are a Sh*tload of animals that are on the endangered species that are being sold or traded daily at swap meets, speciality shops and on the internet, from reputable dealers in the USA.

I have personally seen hundreds of ads on the internet for Asian Aro's being sold throughout CA. I wouldn't recommend anyone to try and purchase them. But if you wanted one that bad, I'd say drive to Canada and buy one. What?, you think that someone is just going to barge into your home, arrest you and take your fish, I highly dought that. Without a warrant, based on hear say, that's money in bank! They only pull stupid crap like that in CA, where their main concern is fruitflies.

 

[Zoodiver]

Your last paragraph summed it up well. I see illegal animals all the time... so I'm sure the same can be said for plants.

As for asian aros: The fact remains that they are endangered in the wild and protected under the Lacey act as such. So, in order to get them out from under that protective law, they need to be re-established in the wild.
I have yet to see any breeder return much stock. It's not profitable for them at all, and most refuse to do so.
The other end of it would be breeders in the US. They wouldn't be able to produce these color variants that bring in the money. They would have to be genetically diverse. Which really translates to "boring ones" when you talk to Asian Aro enthusiasts. They aren't typically birhgt reds, yellows, golds and greens in the wild. They are a greyish brown with a red highlight to them. Those are the animals you'd have to have if you were breeding for reintroduction.

 

[Tequila]

Your last paragraph summed it up well. I see illegal animals all the time... so I'm sure the same can be said for plants.

As for asian aros: The fact remains that they are endangered in the wild and protected under the Lacey act as such. So, in order to get them out from under that protective law, they need to be re-established in the wild.
I have yet to see any breeder return much stock. It's not profitable for them at all, and most refuse to do so.

The other end of it would be breeders in the US. They wouldn't be able to produce these color variants that bring in the money. They would have to be genetically diverse. Which really translates to "boring ones" when you talk to Asian Aro enthusiasts. They aren't typically birhgt reds, yellows, golds and greens in the wild. They are a greyish brown with a red highlight to them. Those are the animals you'd have to have if you were breeding for reintroduction.

The Lacey Act provides that it is unlawful for any person to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law whether in interstate or foreign commerce. Violation of this federal act can result in civil penalties up to $10,000 per each violation or maximum criminal sanctions of $20,000 in fines and/or up to five years imprisonment. All plants or animals taken in violation of the Act are subject to forfeiture as well as all vessels, vehicles, aircraft, and other equipment used to aid in the importing, exporting, transporting, selling, receiving, acquiring, or purchasing of fish or wildlife or plants in a criminal violation of this chapter for which a felony conviction is obtained where the owner should have known of the illegal transgression.

It's funny in away, the Government and Law Enforcement does less to drug trafficers and sellers than they claim they'll do to people selling animals. But all of the above is only relevent if they can prove that you knew that what you where doing was wrong when and when you did. And once those bases are covered then Law Enforcement has to convince a judge and maybe then a jury, that this Act isn't just something that out lived it's time and that it shouldn't be removed from the books to make way for crimes with victims. Or that you a Asian Fish keeper should be housed with some of Americas Most Wanted.

 

[Monolicious]

Just be careful who you tell about your illegal fish.
I have a friend who is currently serving 2 years and got a fine of $10,000.00AU for 5 illegal fish.

 

[Tequila]

Just be careful who you tell about your illegal fish.
I have a friend who is currently serving 2 years and got a fine of $10,000.00AU for 5 illegal fish.

Now that's funny, because I know a guy that just finished (a few months back that is) an 18~24 month ankle braclet thingy where you stay at home, School, work and then back home kinda thing. For smuggling herps out of Australia in a suitcase and was dumb enough to had video tape himself and his buddies packing them in the socks and what nots. And I hear that he still has another 2 yrs probation and he's not allow to have reptiles or go near them while on probation. Plus there was that $20G fine too!

 

[ITHURTZ]

Ouch I think murder is cheaper.

 

[Zoodiver]

But all of the above is only relevent if they can prove that you knew that what you where doing was wrong when and when you did.

That isn't true. Ignorance doesn't hold up in court.

 

[Tequila]

Ouch I think murder is cheaper.

That would depend on which murder you were talking about. Example: Manslaughter is murder except you go in to court claiming that you were too ignorant to understand that hitting someone over the head with a shovel as hard as you did could do little more than cause them a serious headache.

That isn't true. Ignorance doesn't hold up in court.

That may be true in fact, not in practice though. People walk out of courts every day, because they just didn't know or because they did know and they could afford a good lawyer. Or because the jury just wants to get home for the weekend. I would say that usually most of these type of cases end with just a fine and in very rare cases with some jail time.

And non of what I'm saying makes any of this right or wrong I'm just saying that's all.

 

[ITHURTZ]

Wait, so your telling me hitting someone in the head with a shovel can kill them?

 

[Tequila]

Wait, so your telling me hitting someone in the head with a shovel can kill them?

Imagine that, I learn something new almost everyday. Working along side lawyers and attorney's on a daily bases. I asked this attorney today about this shovel bit and I would have never imagined in a million years that swatting someone across the head with simple metal digging shovel could cause oh so much damage as splitting the skull like a banana and causing their grey matter to spill from their skull like a Slurpie. I gotta start paying more attention to these things, that are kicked around the office.

Dude always I'm saying is just because it's illegal doesn't make it wrong.