Howdy,
Thank you.
No. and No. And I am not a farmer, if you mean that
Liebig's Law is universal. The limiting factor determines the growth. In agriculture, that is nitrate. In rivers, in our climate and geology, that's mostly phosphate (thus, my example with the detergents).
Your friends and the books you refer to may be somewhat misleading or simply wrong. Plants indeed can use nitrite and ammonia, but no fish survive at concentrations high enough for plants to use nitrite or ammonia as significant nitrogen sources. For all practical purposes, neither nitrite nor ammonia play any role as plant nutrient in our hobby. What you refer to as "less nitrate effect" is merely based on plants using nitrate as nutrient. Has nothing to do with nitrite or ammonia.
I assume you never had an ammonia or nitrite peak because your system is well established. You have a high enough capacity of bacteria to gobble it all up to form nitrate. And high nitrate levels with either plenty of fish or big fish are not surprising.
You already said it: Lack of other nutrients. Or - and this also is one of the factors in Liebig's Law - light. Depending on your light source, you have to change lamps every so often. That's about 6-12 months for regular fluorescent lights, 12-24 months for compact fluorescent and longer for metal halide. Also, the type of lamp is important, plants need the right spectrum. Ergo: A shop light from Home Depot is fine for fish only, but it might cause big trouble with some plants. You mentioned that swords grow but hornwart doesn't. Different species have different requirements, to the nutrients and to the light. As a matter of fact, swords are pretty easy with light. I have one growing under a light bulb
Hornwart seems to have different requirements. Apparently, there is another limiting facor there for it, as said, most likely the lighting. It cannot be nitrates. You seem to have plenty of those 
In those systems, nitrates occur at a concentration that is enough but not too much for the plants. I.e. nitrates get used right away and do not accumulate in free water.
I am surprised that those reefkeepers still have fish. Honestly, they are not good hobbyists if they cannot run a tank without nitrate and/or ammonia. As a matter of fact, Calurpa growns in a basic (high pH) environment. The acid/base equilibrium between NH4+ and NH3 would be completely shifted to NH3. Your tank would smell, if not stink like ammonia, if that was in high enough concentrations to be used as nitrogen source by plants. Fish would have long been dead.
You quit feeding for a week. You had plenty of nitrates in there. Thus, nitrates cannot be the limiting factor. As stated before, they rarely are in our hobby. Quite the opposite: We tend to have too much of them. The reason is that our fish density and food are higher than in the wild. Anyhow, I assume it was another nutrient, which your tank lacked. Looks like you added just enough by feed or just enough got converted by your fish (i.e. pooped out) that your Calurpa was fine. Once that source dried out, the plants could not sustain. That especially applies to algae. And Calurpa is an algae. They have no depots for bridging a period of famine. That's why you can get rid of algea by turning the lights off and covering your tank for three days. Macrophytes (higher plants) survive just fine. Algae starve to death since they don't have any depot on nutrients nor can they generate any since photosynthesis won't work in the dark..
FYI: In the natural habitat of Calurpa, no low-valent nitrogen compounds (i.e. nitrite, ammonia) can be detected in the water. And that is not because they use it up too fast
If it's the same guys as the reef keepers you mentioned above, then stay away from them
Peace out,
HarleyK
Miles said:
Thank you.
Miles said:
No. and No. And I am not a farmer, if you mean that
Liebig's Law is universal. The limiting factor determines the growth. In agriculture, that is nitrate. In rivers, in our climate and geology, that's mostly phosphate (thus, my example with the detergents).Miles said:
Your friends and the books you refer to may be somewhat misleading or simply wrong. Plants indeed can use nitrite and ammonia, but no fish survive at concentrations high enough for plants to use nitrite or ammonia as significant nitrogen sources. For all practical purposes, neither nitrite nor ammonia play any role as plant nutrient in our hobby. What you refer to as "less nitrate effect" is merely based on plants using nitrate as nutrient. Has nothing to do with nitrite or ammonia.
Miles said:
I assume you never had an ammonia or nitrite peak because your system is well established. You have a high enough capacity of bacteria to gobble it all up to form nitrate. And high nitrate levels with either plenty of fish or big fish are not surprising.
Miles said:
You already said it: Lack of other nutrients. Or - and this also is one of the factors in Liebig's Law - light. Depending on your light source, you have to change lamps every so often. That's about 6-12 months for regular fluorescent lights, 12-24 months for compact fluorescent and longer for metal halide. Also, the type of lamp is important, plants need the right spectrum. Ergo: A shop light from Home Depot is fine for fish only, but it might cause big trouble with some plants. You mentioned that swords grow but hornwart doesn't. Different species have different requirements, to the nutrients and to the light. As a matter of fact, swords are pretty easy with light. I have one growing under a light bulb
Hornwart seems to have different requirements. Apparently, there is another limiting facor there for it, as said, most likely the lighting. It cannot be nitrates. You seem to have plenty of those Miles said:
In those systems, nitrates occur at a concentration that is enough but not too much for the plants. I.e. nitrates get used right away and do not accumulate in free water.
Miles said:
I am surprised that those reefkeepers still have fish. Honestly, they are not good hobbyists if they cannot run a tank without nitrate and/or ammonia. As a matter of fact, Calurpa growns in a basic (high pH) environment. The acid/base equilibrium between NH4+ and NH3 would be completely shifted to NH3. Your tank would smell, if not stink like ammonia, if that was in high enough concentrations to be used as nitrogen source by plants. Fish would have long been dead.
You quit feeding for a week. You had plenty of nitrates in there. Thus, nitrates cannot be the limiting factor. As stated before, they rarely are in our hobby. Quite the opposite: We tend to have too much of them. The reason is that our fish density and food are higher than in the wild. Anyhow, I assume it was another nutrient, which your tank lacked. Looks like you added just enough by feed or just enough got converted by your fish (i.e. pooped out) that your Calurpa was fine. Once that source dried out, the plants could not sustain. That especially applies to algae. And Calurpa is an algae. They have no depots for bridging a period of famine. That's why you can get rid of algea by turning the lights off and covering your tank for three days. Macrophytes (higher plants) survive just fine. Algae starve to death since they don't have any depot on nutrients nor can they generate any since photosynthesis won't work in the dark..
FYI: In the natural habitat of Calurpa, no low-valent nitrogen compounds (i.e. nitrite, ammonia) can be detected in the water. And that is not because they use it up too fast
Miles said:I am going to have to take this discussion to a forum with a bunch of planted tank buffs
If it's the same guys as the reef keepers you mentioned above, then stay away from them
Peace out,
HarleyK
