The 5 still in 4500 gal - two wittei/congo, two bouche, one niger g-cat:
Giraffe catfish at Fish Story
- Thread starter thebiggerthebetter
- Start date
A useful ID thread with excellent input from Kirk aka Yellowcat and others:
www.monsterfishkeepers.com
Giraffe cat question?
Been wanting one for awhile but have never gotten one due to their size. Well I ended up getting one that's 14 inches but it's 3 years old. Don't think it's a dwarf but at that age I would think it would've been 2 feet plus. Could this be a runt or what?
www.monsterfishkeepers.com
Yellowcat
I always think of you when I see, film or think of g-cats 
Order of appearance:
- 2x Bouche
- 2x Congo / wittei
- 1x Niger river gcat (from WetSpot), yellow, deep set eyes, some pattern is usually visible, spots, but faded under strong filming light, body proportions obviously differ from Volta (and Bouche and Congo) when side by side - first good and long footage - Kirk, what do you make of this guy now grown up, 6 years old, 22"?
6:25-8:15 min:
Hey Viktor, loved your underwater tour! Nice to see the different varieties of giraffe cats and compare their markings and colors. I was intrigued by the one fish with the rippling dorsal fin similar to that of a knife fish, don't know what it is but very cool. Also like the sequence of you saving the Asian Red Tail wounded by the paroon shark on another post, amazing to see the progression of it's healing. In the past I was able to save a p. bufonis and a c. batrachus similarly wounded. Recently jlnugyen74 posted a picture from his 600G tank of one of my two former a. witteii cats on a photo forum here, still growing perhaps. Here's the photo that John posted of a recently acquired h. aimara wolf fish next to my former g. cat. The wolf fish he estimates to be around 22" so you'll notice the size difference between the two is considerable. The first photo is that of one of the g. cats I passed on to him in 2012 @ 19", the other is the recent photo from John...
Thank you, Kirk! Good to see your and John's wittei. It looks like 30" but probably a bit longer, especially if it were to be measured out of water. The fish with the rippling dorsal fin is bowfin. The cat wounded by paroons is Sperata aor.
Are you dodging my question about the Niger river gcat or buying time to think about it? Probably just another version of occidentalis, just like the Volta one, only from Niger?
Are you dodging my question about the Niger river gcat or buying time to think about it?
Probably just another version of occidentalis, just like the Volta one, only from Niger?First, didn't know about the bowfin's dorsal fin being like that, only seen still photos of the fish or on bass fishing shows when caught by disappointed bass anglers. Never seen one alive as they are banned here in Cali. I was in a hurry when mentioning the wounded fish, at least I got the Asian part right. I did raise a sprerata aor to 17" years ago. About the Niger cat, such a handsome fish, love the yellow color, haven't seen anything quite like it anywhere else so no way to compare it. Reading back some of the posts on this thread, what was most interesting was the feedback from Wetspot fish on g. cats received from various countries. Now the Volta cat would come from the Volta River basin, mostly in Ghana but nearby countries as well. What seems a possibility is that that the Niger cat could possibly be what was now formerly known as auchenoglanis tchadiensis, that comes from the Chad basin that includes Niger. That was hinted at by the Wetspot post in a way. Being from different river systems might likely account for morphological, growth and general appearance differences? As to species, we both know how that is an ongoing question depending which Revision of the Genus 'persuasion' we may consider valid. I went back to looking up the genus up on FishBase and they now recognize the 2013 revision that recognizes 2 species. a. occidentalis and a. biscutatus. Look up a. senegalis and you get a. biscutatus. Same with any of the 9 or so former names related to occidentalis variants, you get a. occidenatlis as a single species. In any case the yellow one seems unique in it's own right, you may just have the only a. tchadiensis in captivity? Whatever it is, a personal favorite from your amazing collection... Wasn't dodging the question, just felt the need to consult my files, old posts, links, revisions and maps of Africa before attempting to make a half way reasonable response and fake it as an expert?
This perfectly highlights the problems we all have with identification, including many modern experts. Many of the fish we know have been identified long ago as different species due to slightly different colouring and a different catch site to the few specimens which were originally described over a hundred years ago. Sometimes the general consensus or even rules change and a different species has to have an obvious physical difference, not just a different physical location or color, even if the two locations are in no way connected. Since there is always the possibility one specimine was transported to a different location. At times we end up having to reduce the species range and concur they are the same species, just from different locations. As keepers we will have to, and do, find ways of re-labelling ourselves. Maybe we need to keep the believed location on the labelling. We can't just call all the different ones a.occidentalis or a.Biscitatus otherwise this gets confusing.
Agreed. This is practical at least.
Excellent post Kirk. Let me take a moment in time and say what I love about you is that you often take time to do the work, to refresh your memory, to do homework, to compose your post in a logical, clear, and balanced fashion, and in proper English... and you stay humble and approachable and don't think much of yourself, which is immensely attractive... you don't take an easy way out of shooting from the hip, off the top of your head. And hence, so many of your posts contain solid stuff to remember, to cite, to build more knowledge on, and to learn from. This is how your love and care for others, us, your readers and recipients, becomes a reality. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I know firsthand the inborn, stubborn, ubiquitous, and omnipresent laziness and how it is against our fallen human grain to do any work at all and one must often pick up, push, and make oneself do anything meaningful, beneficial, but it is so easy to shoot the lightweight or weightless breeze unburdened by meaning or benefit...
This is exactly why at seemingly measly 279 current posts you are a Golden Tier VIP per your recent recognition of epitome quality over quantity.
* * * * *
Right, immaterial but I forgot you deprived Californians got short changed on bowfin too, in addition to common sense, haha, joking, only joking, couldn't resist it
Sorry. You probably detected my prominent pedantic side a long time ago. I have a deeply rooted manic need to have everything "just so" and correct so I had to correct you on the ARTC / Sperata
Yeah, I like the Niger g-cat too. The notable deep set eyes bother me a bit, I wonder if it is not normal. Perhaps I worry for no tangible reason.
You made me reread the thread and the PCF thread on the Niger-Congo-Volta trio too but I have not found the country info from WetSpot except that they call the Niger g-cat a Nigerian g-cat, that is per se by country rather than by river, I am interpreting but you are the native speaker between us two. We don't know nor WetSpot said which countries the Volta and Congo came from. I think you too meant the WetSpot photos of the youngsters, which you had already mentioned on page one you found useful to spot the differences.
That'd be very cool. But I've not found / missed the hint you are mentioning. The country thing again?
...
Interesting bit on the FishBase. Thank you. So they went with the latest lumper revision. PCF will probably follow.
Well, thanks Viktor for the kind words! I do try to be as accurate as possible given so many sources available to evaluate scientific information, photos and anecdotal theories and experiences of others and my own. About the countries thing, scientists go more by region and river basin populations than specific countries which are of course noted for being collection points for their studies and in some cases a smaller population may exist within the borders of one nation.
This map of African river basins I find interesting, as some scientists admit that there are overlapping boundaries between different basins and some of these species in question exist only one, a few, or in the case of a. occidentalis, many of them. A case in point about the a. tchadiensis from the Chad basin, it includes Niger and Nigeria, for example.
The map:
Given all possible clues about where a species may or may not exist, for me it's just a process of elimination, gleaned from scientific papers and how I interpret their findings, among other reputable sources of a scientific nature along with striving to discount what I find to be misinformation in some cases. The misinformation aspect is derived from those who may just be uninformed or mistaken in their knowledge or lack thereof. Count me in on that, some years ago when I was more into psuedopimelodid cats, I found what I thought was one at my LFS. I later posted a question on PCF where I tried to come off as all scientific up in there, asking about "sexual dimorphism among pseudopimelodidae" wondering about the sex of my fish with photos attached. It turned out my fish was an Indian Rita Gorgra! Still embarrassed about that to this day! That said, most misinformation found is unintentional, even from those who sell fish online, the exception being in the few cases where more profit can be made by misrepresenting a species. About the Revisions, I did find it useful to consult the earlier 2010 (Retzer) revision to see the morphological differences he found among his specimens and conclusions therein to compare with the findings of the 2013 Revision and the reasons stated there as to why there is disagreement between the two. I only wish I had the qualifications to better evaluate such things but I do like to pass on what I think is common sense, probable, in question and sometimes speculation on my part and try to convey it as such..
This map of African river basins I find interesting, as some scientists admit that there are overlapping boundaries between different basins and some of these species in question exist only one, a few, or in the case of a. occidentalis, many of them. A case in point about the a. tchadiensis from the Chad basin, it includes Niger and Nigeria, for example.
The map:
Given all possible clues about where a species may or may not exist, for me it's just a process of elimination, gleaned from scientific papers and how I interpret their findings, among other reputable sources of a scientific nature along with striving to discount what I find to be misinformation in some cases. The misinformation aspect is derived from those who may just be uninformed or mistaken in their knowledge or lack thereof. Count me in on that, some years ago when I was more into psuedopimelodid cats, I found what I thought was one at my LFS. I later posted a question on PCF where I tried to come off as all scientific up in there, asking about "sexual dimorphism among pseudopimelodidae" wondering about the sex of my fish with photos attached. It turned out my fish was an Indian Rita Gorgra! Still embarrassed about that to this day! That said, most misinformation found is unintentional, even from those who sell fish online, the exception being in the few cases where more profit can be made by misrepresenting a species. About the Revisions, I did find it useful to consult the earlier 2010 (Retzer) revision to see the morphological differences he found among his specimens and conclusions therein to compare with the findings of the 2013 Revision and the reasons stated there as to why there is disagreement between the two. I only wish I had the qualifications to better evaluate such things but I do like to pass on what I think is common sense, probable, in question and sometimes speculation on my part and try to convey it as such..
I am linking my ID thread on Volta, Niger, and Congo giraffe catfish on PCF: https://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=43925&hilit=giraffe
And the revision PCF discussion thread
www.planetcatfish.com
And the revision PCF discussion thread
Revision of Auchenoglanis - PlanetCatfish.com
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www.planetcatfish.com
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