going to try breeding clown loaches

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
The plug for Tetramin food was due to the fact that this so called spawning report was originally posted back in 1973 in Aquarium Digest International, which was a Tetra publication.

Nowak Lerner. 1973. The Clown Loach spawned! Aquarium Digest Intl. 2(2)73.


Personally I'm about as inclined to believe Nowak, as I am Granville Hammond. The former apparently didn't own a camera, the latter lost his photos in his garage, or some such nonsense.

Nice bedtime stories, but no documented proof of anything.


The only credible article I've found over the years is the experience that Colin Dunlop had back in 2007, it wasn't exactly a successful spawn, but at least he provided some photos.
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=1381

More by Colin here:
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=9880


4 yrs later and I haven't seen/read any updated info on recent spawns taking place in Colin's tank.

It seems to me that getting a female gravid is one thing, getting them to produce viable eggs, fertilized by a male, is another.





Footnote to Andy ...... I obviously read more into your comment than what was there, my apologies for overreacting.









 
Had a quick scan over the LOL line (thanks to RD).
A few things:
pH is interesting, but more interesting is the peat filtration. That would be very easy to (safely) manipulate, maybe using almond leaves as well or in stead.
Pressure change is also interesting- a fish that is relying on monsoonal weather (does Sumatra/Borneo get monsoon? Rainy seasons so close to the equator?) would be able to sniff changes. If one was (very very) serious one could build a bellows over the tank to manipulate the pressure. You'd need a massive tank with heaps of live-food or some sort of pressurized feeding door. That or just watch the weather... Alberta gets big thunderstorms, so you should get big fluctuations.
I also wonder about sex ratios. Reading Colin's story I wonder if one would want 3-5 or more males per female to maximize fertilization success. Now you're into either genetic testing (UofC could do that for you Bill, or any lab that does paternity) or a massive system (pond) with a lot of animals- maybe 10 or 15 or more and let them pair/bunch out. Low grassy plants and course gravel substrate to allow the eggs some (early) protection.
Thinking out loud.
A
 
(does Sumatra/Borneo get monsoon? Rainy seasons so close to the equator?)
Click to expand...

Yes, on average 8-12 metres worth of rain during the rainy season.

I also wondered about the sex ratio, seems these guy/s that are getting close are doing so with small groups, that seem more heavy on the males.
From my limited experience I would also think that once a hierarchy is established within that group, not adding new loaches might be equally important. In my shoal it was very clear which loaches ran the tank, and which were sub dominant. I don't think adding or substracting is a good idea once a pecking order has been established within a set group.
 
Here is a thought...shrink the tank/decrease water level while mimicking conditions such as current to little current and manipulating pH etc. They go from open streams to pools. The fact that it happened in a 50 gal may be more than just a coincidence.
As dumb as that sounds until there is a sure-fire method no one knows. And snails are an easy source of food, if abundance is key here since they won't spoil since put in live.
Wonder if the discus spawning shortly beforehand needs to be looked into too.
 
Discus will readily spawn in hard water with a pH of 8.0+, so that's of no real help.
 
Another interesting note: most/nearly all are WC. As unlike other fish there are barely f1s (unless hormone induced) and also no f2s. The more a fish is farther removed from wild, the easier it can be raised and thrive in other conditions (far different than the waters it originally came from), even for breeding, discus being one which comes to mind. I wonder if it may be easier (and no one would know) to try to breed out f2s etc. Although easy is the wrong word to use since no one has done any breeding before documented with photos.
 
RD.;5150975; said:
Discus will readily spawn in hard water with a pH of 8.0+, so that's of no real help.
Click to expand...
was going with a more of a chain of events approach not pH at all as discus can take quite a variety of conditions and still easily spawn. I know pH is of little concern for discus, as many breeders no longer make sure their water is harder or softer when raising fry vs breeding like the used to with those.
 
Good point, F1's are available in some areas (from hormoned induced spawns) and they may very well be more easy to breed under less than ideal (wild) conditions.
 
Does the ph and hardness of the water in borneo go up or down when it rains? Also 8 to 12 meters indicates rather sudden change more than gradual. The idea of f1's is interesting but how would you know if you were getting them or wild caughts. As alot of stores would probably not ask their wholesaler or bother to mark that on the tank. Does anybody know where we could find the f1 cl's. I know alot of animals the female picks her mate to help keep the species strong as we all know what males are like they will mate with anything that stands still. This where the larger tank would be needed to give the subdominant fish a place to to refuge. Apperently the dominant loaches fade their color and turn kind of greyish. Not sure if that is true did you notice that with yours RD. The other thing is most articles tell us to give the loaches a sand bottom but I'm thinking peat covered in a light layer of sand various kinds of plants and driftwood and maybe a few bigger rocks. Could something the plants emit a sometime during the dry season trigger the spawn?
 
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