good question.. any mature arows no drop eye..

[Red Devil]

FREKE-wow is that some gorgeous silver and fantastic pics of him... perfection yes!!! So alot less lighting for your silver then the average.,.. something to remenber...so do you mean you have lights on only once for 5 hours every 2 weeks and the rest of the time natural light?

 

[ctoychik]

okay.. just add the pic here when you can..


1. Did you get him as a baby?
2. Did you leave his light on all day.. or night ?
3. What did you feed him?
4. Who was his tankmates?
5. How big was the tank? ...
6. were you constant about water changes..?
7. Anything extra special you can think of that you did for your
Arow??
8. Anything other info you can offer.
9. Also at any time during the duration of this thread if your arow shows signs of it or developes drop eye..please let us know..

None of my arapaimas have any signs of DE.

1. Had them since babies
2. No lights usually
3. Diet includes small frogs, live fish, hikari sticks, crickets, headless/tailess shrimp (with remaining scales)
4. Silver aro, jar, bichir for two smaller ones - 3 gars, 2 RTCs and O for the big boy
5. 7'x2' for two small ones. 3x2m for the big one
6. 2 times per week 25% feach time for small ones. 20% every forthnight for big one
7. lots of love ^^
8. I think it is activity. Never rests

Two of silvers are starting to show (i think). 1 is perfect <fingers crossed>

1. Since babies
2. No regular light
3. Diet is crickets (mainly), live fish, small frogs, hikari sticks
4. The lone silver lives with 2 paimas, jar and bichir. The two silverts live with green aro and recently added 2 marble pims
5. 7'x2' for the loner. 6'x2' for the two
6. 2 times per week 25% each time for both
7. lots of love ^^
8. The loner than lives with paima and jar gets alot more exercise than the two ANd must be on constant look out for tank mates. The two that lives with an asian aro don't need a particular look out since they are the kings of that acquarium.

PS: asian aro is not showing any signs of DE ...though it is still too puny to tell

PS: jar has no sign of DE

Pictures are in the forum. I will add new pics when i take them over weekend

 

[seangtat2kc]

I will post pics tonight when I get home. I have 4 arowanas in a 400 gallon community tank, all large, the biggest at around 27 inches and the smallest being a black at around 20 inches. 2 of the 5 have drop eye but in only one eye. The largest one developed drop eye it seemed almost out of nowhere around 18 inches. the other has had it since I took him in. They all eat the same thing which ranges from raw shrimp, ghost shrimp, earthworms, crickets, freeze dried shrimp, krill, octopus, pinkies, feeders (convicts, goldfish, guppies, minnows,) and the unfortunate clown loach. lighting consist of fluorescent bulbs with aquarium tint fluorescent lighting. They where raised from a few inches in a 55, then moved to a 125,then a 150, grew out in 2 180's. Then this summer I purchased a 400 96''x48''x20'' and they are flourishing in it. As for what causes the drop eye, ?inbreeding with the silvers? which you can thank for many of the deformities in fish we see today. My black aro, (which are almost always wild caught) is perfect in every way. I tried everything that was suggested to keep from getting drop eye without success. Ping pong balls, floating plants to dim the lights. From low lighting to better simulate their habitat, to expensive aquarium lighting and moonlights. Painted the back, sides and bottom black. Used dark colored sand, brown sand and even a mix of light sand with dark colored pebble rock. Feed a varied diet. I have tried everything in between it both extremes. In my personal experience, it's in their genes. It doesn't seem to effect them any. I would almost think it gives them an advantage being they can see food up top and below them. It's merely a cosmetic issue.

 

[Red Devil]

I will post pics tonight when I get home. I have 4 arowanas in a 400 gallon community tank, all large, the biggest at around 27 inches and the smallest being a black at around 20 inches. 2 of the 5 have drop eye but in only one eye. The largest one developed drop eye it seemed almost out of nowhere around 18 inches. the other has had it since I took him in. They all eat the same thing which ranges from raw shrimp, ghost shrimp, earthworms, crickets, freeze dried shrimp, krill, octopus, pinkies, feeders (convicts, goldfish, guppies, minnows,) and the unfortunate clown loach. lighting consist of fluorescent bulbs with aquarium tint fluorescent lighting. They where raised from a few inches in a 55, then moved to a 125,then a 150, grew out in 2 180's. Then this summer I purchased a 400 96''x48''x20'' and they are flourishing in it. As for what causes the drop eye, ?inbreeding with the silvers? which you can thank for many of the deformities in fish we see today. My black aro, (which are almost always wild caught) is perfect in every way. I tried everything that was suggested to keep from getting drop eye without success. Ping pong balls, floating plants to dim the lights. From low lighting to better simulate their habitat, to expensive aquarium lighting and moonlights. Painted the back, sides and bottom black. Used dark colored sand, brown sand and even a mix of light sand with dark colored pebble rock. Feed a varied diet. I have tried everything in between it both extremes. In my personal experience, it's in their genes. It doesn't seem to effect them any. I would almost think it gives them an advantage being they can see food up top and below them. It's merely a cosmetic issue.

So all your silvers {5} have some drop eye... you really gave me alot of information and i thank you for it... i would say that drop eye points in the direction as genetics being the cause.. do they really inbreed this much though... those giant breeding ponds for arows must be the same ones breeding over and over and then they breed the fry to each other and etc never changing the cycle... this is horrible if this is the cause ... because their are so many.... like you said though it is just cosmetic...but also there must be other unwanted things being bred into them.... nervous system etc may be affected ..some are very jumpy and moody... depressed etc.... any way very good info ... i thank you very much...you certainly have kept good records of history of all of yours... thanks very much.

 

[Red Devil]

None of my arapaimas have any signs of DE.

1. Had them since babies
2. No lights usually
3. Diet includes small frogs, live fish, hikari sticks, crickets, headless/tailess shrimp (with remaining scales)
4. Silver aro, jar, bichir for two smaller ones - 3 gars, 2 RTCs and O for the big boy
5. 7'x2' for two small ones. 3x2m for the big one
6. 2 times per week 25% feach time for small ones. 20% every forthnight for big one
7. lots of love ^^
8. I think it is activity. Never rests

Two of silvers are starting to show (i think). 1 is perfect <fingers crossed>

1. Since babies
2. No regular light
3. Diet is crickets (mainly), live fish, small frogs, hikari sticks
4. The lone silver lives with 2 paimas, jar and bichir. The two silverts live with green aro and recently added 2 marble pims
5. 7'x2' for the loner. 6'x2' for the two
6. 2 times per week 25% each time for both
7. lots of love ^^
8. The loner than lives with paima and jar gets alot more exercise than the two ANd must be on constant look out for tank mates. The two that lives with an asian aro don't need a particular look out since they are the kings of that acquarium.

PS: asian aro is not showing any signs of DE ...though it is still too puny to tell

PS: jar has no sign of DE

Pictures are in the forum. I will add new pics when i take them over weekend

Thanks Very much for great information.. i appreciate you and all of you for taking the time out to write and remenber all this stuff... so far the lighting and genetics are top priority... i do not see too many areas where too much else is different... except yours have the extra love... {very powerful supplement}How big is the silver that is so far perfect.. ?

 

[Red Devil]

1. Background and Introduction An Arowana is said to have droop eye syndrome when its eyeball is perpetually tilted downwards such that it is always looking down. This usually occurs in only 1 eye, with the other eye looking normal. The severity of droop eye may vary from a slight tilt to an extreme case where a large part of the top of the eye ball is exposed.

​

There are also cases where both eyes are tilted downwards. Usually the degree of eyeball tilt is very mild in these cases and this occurrence is also known as "slanted eyes" to some. An Arowana may be said to have "slanted eyes" when both eyeballs are tilted slightly downwards. It is debatable whether these Arowanas have slight droop eye on both sides or "slanted eyes". Is the "slanted eye" look, a mere coincidence of slight droop eye on both eyes, such that the Arowana has a more balanced look? Thus, the special term "slanted eyes" is used rather than droop eye? This could be something that the reader might wish to ponder over and reach his own conclusion.
The occurrence of droop eye in Arowanas is an issue that is still very much open to debate. To date, some have attributed this syndrome to genetics, while others say that it's caused by diet and there are also some who feel that it is the environment that causes this.
Arowana enthusiasts have classified the droop eye syndrome to be one of the possible "defects" that an Arowana may posses. The other possible physical defects that are common and unique to the Arowana include protruding jaw, tail biting and pimple-like growth on the barbels amongst others. The presence of these defects affect the overall beauty of the specimen and thus to a certain extent, the value of the fish.

As the commonly quoted saying goes,"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." To what extent do these "defects" affect the overall beauty and poise of the specimen is indeed highly subjective and will not be discussed in this article. Suffice to say that under competition standards, the occurrence of these "defects" are taken into consideration during judging. However, as hobbyists, the extent to which these defects are deemed disturbing will depend very much on the individual's preference.

2. Causes and remedies of droop eye.
2.1 Diet:
It has been said that high fat diet causes fatty deposits to be found behind the eye socket. Perhaps autopsies were done on specimens with droop eye and these were the findings.

​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]a) 1.5 Red with no droop eye[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]b) Same 1.5 Red while chewing on a feeder Goldgish [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Photo credit: Edwin Chan[/FONT]

Another diet factor that has been mentioned is the feeding of hard food. I would suppose that this theory comes along because it was observed that the Arowana appears to be "looking down" when chewing due to visual effect of the "flaring" gill plates. But are the Arowana's eyeballs really looking down or just appear to be looking down?​

2.2 Genetics:
Genetics could very be the cause but its very difficult to prove it right or wrong. But whatever it is, any scientific hypothesis that cannot be proven wrong may more or less be presumed right until proven otherwise.
Another genetic possibility could be the varying degree of inquisitiveness of each individual fish. Just like humans, each individual fish has its temperament and character also. Perhaps individual Arowanas that are more inquisitive may be more prone to droop eye.

2.3 Environment:
Environmental factors have been attributed to cause droop eye in Arowanas. Among these factors are the reflection on the tank bottom and bright lights at the top of the tank. As the aquarium lights are turned on at night, we may observe that the Arowana's eyeballs may tilt down by as much as about 30degrees. Could the bright lights at the top, be a factor that causes this syndrome? Perhaps. Then again, if you were to suddenly turn on the room lights, when the room is pitch dark, I too would squint my eyes until my vision can adjust to the bright surroundings. What more can we expect from fishes when they do not have eyelids?
How did reflection at the bottom of the tank become a factor associated with this syndrome? This could have come about because under natural surroundings, this reflection is not present. This reflection is present only in the glass aquarium due to the highly polished surfaces. Since this is a factor that is only present in artificial surroundings like glass tanks, it is also presumed that it causes droop eye. Further evidence that support this theory is the possibility of "curing" droop eye by placing it in a fibreglass tank. However, fibreglass tanks are also used to prevent the Arowana from peering out of the tank. As the normal glass aquarium tanks are place a certain distance from the ground level, it is inevitable that the Arowana will look downwards. Another alternative to remove reflection at the tank bottom is to use gravel or set up a planted tank. Arowanas are usually kept in bare tanks for easy maintenance and thus, usually a thin layer of gravel is introduced as a compromise.

Another often cited possible cause for drop eye is the habitual looking down by the Arowana. Arowanas being highly intelligent fishes, as intelligent as a fish can get I suppose, are also inquisitive as well. As the fishes are placed in tanks higher up, they also have a tendency to look down on moving objects much akin to peering out of the tank. These may small children and pets such as small dogs. As such, to minimise this "habit" of looking down, people have proposed to place these Arowanas with slight droop eye in to earth ponds, fibreglass tanks and also to cover all sides of the glass tank up, leaving only the top surface visible. Such techniques have been met with varying degrees of success.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Keeping the Arowana in a planted tank is a good way of removing reflection from the bottom surface of the tank.It provides a natural setting for the Arowana to reside. Maintainance may be a little more demanding but the visually pleasing result makes it worthwhile if one can spare the time. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Photo credit Heemeng[/FONT][/FONT]

Other cited possible cures are to place a ping-pong ball or two in the tank. This will attract the Arowanas attention and entice it to look up. However, I feel that this method will only attract the attention of the Arowana for the first few days. Once the Arowana gets used to having this boring in animate object floating around in the tank, it will simply ignore it. Another one is the use of blinking lights placed on top of the tank. Perhaps this may be a better method since the lights are at least moving.

These blinking lights may be in the form of bicycle lights or those decorative lights commonly used for Christmas or Hari Raya decorations. I would prefer those Christmas lights as they are less monotonous and more attention grabbing. The Arowana is more likely to stay interested in these lights much longer than with ping-pong balls. Nowadays, these lights even come with sound and different blinking patterns. Imagine your Arowana listening to Lambada all night long!
Another possible cause of droop eye is the introduction of bottom dwelling tank mates into the Arowana tank. I feel that tank mates are fine and good as they maintain a high activity level in the tank. These tank mates have the similar effect on the Arowanas much like that cited for small pets and children.

3. Conclusion:
In conclusion, I would suppose the most politically correct answer is to consider all factors when deciding how one should go about designing their Arowana tank and routine. This would include the tank location, the environment such as the number of viewable tank sides, tank height, outside surroundings, feeding, etc.

If you do attempt to rectify the droop eye problem, try to do it as early as possible. It has also been said that chances of success are better when the droop eye is slight. Once severe droop eye sets in, rectification is difficult, if not impossible. However, be aware that there are also reported cases of recurring droop eye after it has been "cured". Perhaps, this could be due to unresolved environmental or feeding issues. If the cause of droop eye is indeed genetic, little could be done to prevent it and hobbyists could probably rectify the problem when they notice it, should they choose to do so.
These methods have worked for some and disappointed others. Whatever, the case, do note that these "cures" could take anything from weeks to months. Thus, patience is an important aspect when using these methods to "cure" droop eye.
All in all, let's live and let live. Have fun keeping the majestic Dragon Fish and don't be so bothered by these defects. After all, there is so much more to the Arowana than just its eyes.

 

[Freke]

FREKE-wow is that some gorgeous silver and fantastic pics of him... perfection yes!!! So alot less lighting for your silver then the average.,.. something to remenber...so do you mean you have lights on only once for 5 hours every 2 weeks and the rest of the time natural light?

I stay at my gf house for a week then the light is off all the time, I only turn it on for like 30 min a day when im there to feed them, if i feed everyday. The week im home is the light of untill i get home from work and around 5 and then i turn it off at 11 or so. So its a dark tank normaly cus i got black background and the tank is in a corner of the room. And at the moment do i only have 4x48" tubes so it doesnt cover the whole tank. But im not sure the lights that helps him, still hes just half way to full size.

 

[Red Devil]

I stay at my gf house for a week then the light is off all the time, I only turn it on for like 30 min a day when im there to feed them, if i feed everyday. The week im home is the light of untill i get home from work and around 5 and then i turn it off at 11 or so. So its a dark tank normaly cus i got black background and the tank is in a corner of the room. And at the moment do i only have 4x48" tubes so it doesnt cover the whole tank. But im not sure the lights that helps him, still hes just half way to full size.

Thanks for clarifying..just wanted to make sure i had it right..

 

[seangtat2kc]

So all your silvers {5} have some drop eye... you really gave me alot of information and i thank you for it... i would say that drop eye points in the direction as genetics being the cause.. do they really inbreed this much though... those giant breeding ponds for arows must be the same ones breeding over and over and then they breed the fry to each other and etc never changing the cycle... this is horrible if this is the cause ... because their are so many.... like you said though it is just cosmetic...but also there must be other unwanted things being bred into them.... nervous system etc may be affected ..some are very jumpy and moody... depressed etc.... any way very good info ... i thank you very much...you certainly have kept good records of history of all of yours... thanks very much.

No, only 2 silvers have drop eye. I have 4 arowanas. 3 silvers and 1 black. 2 of the silvers have drop eye in 1 eye. The other silver and the black are perfect. They were all raised in the same environment.

 

[Red Devil]

No, only 2 silvers have drop eye. I have 4 arowanas. 3 silvers and 1 black. 2 of the silvers have drop eye in 1 eye. The other silver and the black are perfect. They were all raised in the same environment.

okay thanks.... how big is the perfect silver compared to the others?