Grand Sumo

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Foods that use large inclusion rates of synthetic color enhancing agents (such as Carophyll Pink) can definitely alter a fishes natural coloration, turning a fish that is naturally yellow, to an unnatural orange. Or a fish that is pinkish, to a deep red. It all depends on how much is added to the feed, you just have to pick a number from the slick little color chart & dial in what kind of unnatural color that you are seeking.

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Not saying that's the case with Grand Sumo, but astaxanthin can come in many forms, both natural, and synthetic.


""fortified" omega fatty acids" is nothing more than a marketing gimmick - as previously stated all fish foods that contain fish meal, krill meal, etc will contain omega acids. While Grand Sumo is marketed for FH, any species of fish can eat it, it's not like FH's require anything different nutrient wise from any other cichlid.
 
.... more than what?

FH require the exact same nutrients as any other cichlid, so feed them the same foods you feed the rest of your fish.
 
Head growth on FH has to do with what I believe the appropriate mixture of fat and protein. Just like nutrition with people, If you eat a lot of fatty foods and carbohydrates it stores somewhere. I have heard that high fat diet on fish will shorten life span some what which makes sense because the same thing happens in most organisms that process excess fats by storing them without some sort of use for them I.E hibernation, drought, scarcity of food source, winter survival. As for grand sumo goes it is a little pricy for my blood. I would rather feed salmon, algae, shrimp, and other more natural foods to try mimic some sort of diet requirement and achieve proper fish health. As with flower horn vs. other SA & CA cichlid nutrient requirements they are they same to keep fish healthy, but for appearance wise flowerhorn will demand a more heavy diet to achieve desired coloration and kok growth that is considered more desirable by people in the trade.
 
The nutrient requirements are the same, period.

Millions of people world-wide have achieved the same growth including massive kok sizes in their fish long before any of the specialty FH foods arrived on the market.
 
Yes I stated that about diet requirement. Read it again. I am talking best results here. Yes millions of people have had success with same diets as SA but as for potential of their fish goes they could have made them look better. If you don't believe that get 2 fish same species, feed one brand x and feed the other grand sumo. Then post the fish for sale at the same price and see which one sells faster. Growth rate and kok also has to do with genetics. The potential kok size is in the genes. Quality FH have been line bred to produce fast growth and large kok + pearling and color. The growth rates are not going to be the same. There are too many different variables in the food nutrients from brand to brand and genetics in species. A fish will reach it's max size faster with growth foods. That's why tilapia ad trout farms use it(Period)
 
No need to read it again, I understood what you stated the first time.
I also agree about genetics & kok size, a genetically poor fish will remain just that, and even the best diet in the world isn't going to make a masterpiece out of a piece of .....

My point was, that any high quality commercial food can & will produce the same results that one finds in the so called specialty FH foods. There is nothing special about FH foods, grand sumo, or otherwise. Quite frankly, IMO some of the better products will produce far better results.
I'm also talking about the "best" results.

Original Grand Sumo

Ingredients:
Fish Meal, Shrimp Meal, Soybean Meal, Multivitamins and Organic Minerals.

Guranteed Content Analysis
Min Crude Protein 48%
Min Crude Fat 4%
Max Crude Ash 15%
Max. Crude Fiber 4%
Max. Sodium Chloride 2%
Max. Moisture 11%


Nothing overly exciting about that formula, and certainly nothing that can't be duplicated (and then some) using a handful of other far less expensive feeds currently on the market. With an ash content of 15% I think it's also safe to assume that either a generic fish meal is being used (processing plant waste) and/or the shrimp meal is mostly comprised of heads & shells, again, processing plant leftovers. If you feel that those ingredients will produce the "best" results in a FH, you are sadly mistaken.
 
So what produces the best results? I agree that Sumo is overpriced and you can get great results from other foods, but what is your solution to better results? Quite frankly I have not heard you state any of these other "high quality" foods that you use or have used so I don't know where you are getting your opinions from except from the idea that you can not afford to feed GS. I personally like to feed my fish salmon, prawn, spirlina, crayfish, boiled fish, earth worms, massivore and biogold or whatever extra pellet I have laying around. I don't think you can really argue with that GS produces a great food for flowerhorn or other SA. What I have personally seen with feeding GS to a fish with good genetics is quality. I am not trying to advertise for them but if you can swing the price tag, you won't be disappointed with how it works. as soon as you give me a better food (or make it) that will out do sumo and show me that you know what you are talking about (through personal experience) I will try it out or buy some from you. I don't know if you understand Nutrient reaction, "With an ash content of 15% I think it's also safe to assume that either a generic fish meal is being used (processing plant waste) and/or the shrimp meal is mostly comprised of heads & shells, again, processing plant leftovers." What food does not use processed fish and shrimp? They all do. Considering the high amount of ash (which is the same in Bio-gold and actually less than massivore at 17%) tells relatively that around the same combo of fish meal and shrimp meal is used. But how that interacts with the other ingredients such as vitamins, trace elements, and amino acids added to GS to provide better absorbtion rate of the actual protein and fat in the food, GS has definatly done a little more research to make the process more efficient. you probably would not understand this if you think since they have close to the same min. crude protein, Min. crude ash, Min. crude fat, etc. that one is going to be just as good as the other. Once you have tried it your critisizm is warranted. You should probably go do a water change.... or start mixing up your concotion that will compete.
 
Pseudo, RD has a long history in the fish nutrition industry. You will eventually find out he will be able to provide whatever scientific backing you'll need to satisfy you that he is indeed an expert -- perhaps one of the best.

The easiest thing to do is to just ask whatever questions you may have and accept his response as the truth. That's my advice, but you can certainly try to verify his comments too. That'll take a while, and you'll just end up in the same place.

RD sells fish foods, and has convinced many an aquarist that New Life Spectrum foods are by far the best. Some, like me, have attempted to disprove that with poor results. Having studied veterinary medicine in school I have a little background in animal nutrition. I have never found anything RD has stated to be based on anything other than scientific fact.

All that said, there are many ways to skin a cat. The "best" food might not be necessary to provide good nutrition to your fish and result in solid health and nice coloration. I prefer to take no chances though, and it seems as though you are the same in that way!
 
I understand all of this a wee bit better than you think amigo, but I'm far from being an expert, in anything. (but thanks for the kind words Chris)

I didn't name any other brands as there is really no need to, and I have a strong bias towards one particular brand, as well as a vested interest.

I didn't post in this thread to promote anything beyond common sense.

That being said, unless the raw ingredients themselves are lacking, or one has used a large inclusion rate of something such as soybean meal, where limiting amino acids come into play (in that example Methionine), there's no need to add additional chemically synthesized amino acids to a formula, anymore than there would be for you to add these to your home made mix of foods.

I don't care what the min crude protein is on a label, I'm more interested in what makes up that crude protein, as in how much of that protein is actually available to the fish. The crude protein % found on a label is simply a nitrogen reading taken by someone wearing a white lab coat, and doesn't provide any form of data as to how much of that protein can be assimilated by your fish.

If you feel that grand sumo contains some magical elixir that enhances kok growth beyond what any other decent quality food does, then that is certainly your prerogative.
 
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