Grave News on Lake Erie

[JasonsPlecosCichlids]

I didn't have the time to read all the posts so I don't know if this has been posted but back in 2009 Kentucky fish and game introduced gator gar to the Ohio river and it's tributaries so who knows what will happen. If they survived or not. I know they had 14,000 fry that they released at about 12-14" in the ecosystem. Personally being from Indiana I hope they take hold and we have a new game fish to compete for.


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Yea I'm aware of them stocking the Gators in KY, someone posted in on a KY fishing forum and almost everyone had a stink about it, because they said it would eat/kill "their", remember, "their" favorite fish which is mostly the bass. Next year if time permits, I may take myself down to this location and fish for them. Gar are easy to catch. I haven't heard anyone catching Gators yet or if they have tracked them. I may ask my contact at KDFWR is they have any new survey information on them.

 

[MN_Rebel]

Last year, 1 hour away from Lewiston, IL it was 10 degrees below zero and about another approx. 1 hour away it was 17 degrees below zero at a later date, I'm pretty sure the lakes were frozen at this point. This was also accompanied by a lot of snowfall all around this location, but yet this year the Gator's in this lake were growing. I would say that the next survey should have excellent results.

I'm not sure what "not harsh" is but 10 and 17 degrees below zero, is pretty harsh to me on young fish.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ilx/?n=2011review


If you read the comments on http://blog.nature.org/science/2013/03/04/big-fish-return-of-the-alligator-gar/ you will see that that the Great Lakes Advisory Boars is interested in stocking the Gators in the Great Lakes.

Will the fisheries biologists Rod Hilsabeck/Trent Thomas or the Illinois Department of Natural Resources be providing the spunky Bottoms Alligator Gar Study finding’s to the U.S. EPA Great Lakes Advisory Board. This could be pivotal in the development of the new Great Lakes Restoration Initiative (GLRI) Action Plan who’s current main focus is the Asian Carp threat to the Great Lakes.

The growth rates are promising for Northern Water’s.
- See more at: http://blog.nature.org/science/2013/03/04/big-fish-return-of-the-alligator-gar/#sthash.kFCV6zEd.dpuf

That doesn't mean the waters are suddenly super cold and not all dept have same temperatures. The bottom of the lake is usually more warmer than the upper level of the lake during the winters.

 

[JasonsPlecosCichlids]

That doesn't mean the waters are suddenly super cold and not all dept have same temperatures. The bottom of the lake is usually more warmer than the upper level of the lake during the winters.

If its 10-17 degrees below zero, its super cold.....

Exactly, you just proved my point. The deeper waters are giving the Gator's the ability to make/adapt through the winter. So during the next survey, hopefully there will be great results.

 

[MN_Rebel]

If its 10-17 degrees below zero, its super cold.....

Exactly, you just proved my point. The deeper waters are giving the Gator's the ability to make/adapt through the winter. So during the next survey, hopefully there will be great results.

No you didn't make any point. My point is that if a there is a long harsh winter comes, and when the temperatures hit a lethal point at the bottom depends on the species, they will experienced cold stress and starts to die.

You have to remember that the air and the water temperature isn't same

 

[JasonsPlecosCichlids]

No you didn't make any point. My point is that if a there is a long harsh winter comes, and when the temperatures hit a lethal point at the bottom depends on the species, they will experienced cold stress and starts to die.

You have to remember that the air and the water temperature isn't same

Well how about this, since neither one of us are experts, we will wait to see what the new survey results will be. We don't know anything that may happen, it's all speculation. Obviously the biologists that are stocking the Gators in Illinois, have high hopes they will will make it, they made it one year with great results during cold winters and I would have to say that expect to see some good results.

You know, any fish can die because lethal temperatures, etc. Some fish adapt faster than others such as silver/bighead carp. They started in the south and worked their ways up all the way to the Great Lakes. They are breeding and flourishing everywhere.

Yes a point was made...you said its to cold, if we get harsh winters they wont make it, if, if, if, if.......everything is if..... Why be so negative on this? You don't know what will happen, why go against good data from the survey of the gators? You said it's warmer on the bottom, I said well the Gators will have warm water for the winter, then you said no, if their is a harsh winter...... All I have to say is time will tell.

Hell, IF there is a long, harsh winter, some of us die too.

 

[MN_Rebel]

Well how about this, since neither one of us are experts, we will wait to see what the new survey results will be. We don't know anything that may happen, it's all speculation. Obviously the biologists that are stocking the Gators in Illinois, have high hopes they will will make it, they made it one year with great results during cold winters and I would have to say that expect to see some good results.

You know, any fish can die because lethal temperatures, etc. Some fish adapt faster than others such as silver/bighead carp. They started in the south and worked their ways up all the way to the Great Lakes. They are breeding and flourishing everywhere.

Yes a point was made...you said its to cold, if we get harsh winters they wont make it, if, if, if, if.......everything is if..... Why be so negative on this? You don't know what will happen, why go against good data from the survey of the gators? You said it's warmer on the bottom, I said well the Gators will have warm water for the winter, then you said no, if their is a harsh winter...... All I have to say is time will tell.

Hell, IF there is a long, harsh winter, some of us die too.

I think you are meant YOU are not expert, that's a difference between me and you. Yes the gator gars made to their first year thanks to the mild winters, doesn't means they all experienced the harsh winters. Like I said, I've seen a single harsh winter wiped out an entire population of fishes that is used to mild winters, perhaps you should explain it to us why they don't survive a harsh winter in these cases. Yes some fish can adapt faster but Silver and bighead carps comes from Amur River systems in Russia so and we have no evidence of Asian carps are reproducing in Minnesota.

It's clearly that you don't try to read up the studies on lethal temperatures, cold stress and cold tolerance on Native Fishes. The studies are available on Google and the studies will explain to you. So please take your time to read up on these studies. As I've explained that there is a limit of temperature/periods that a species can take and endurance for a specific period.

 

[JasonsPlecosCichlids]

I think you are meant YOU are not expert, that's a difference between me and you. Yes the gator gars made to their first year thanks to the mild winters, doesn't means they all experienced the harsh winters. Like I said, I've seen a single harsh winter wiped out an entire population of fishes that is used to mild winters, perhaps you should explain it to us why they don't survive a harsh winter in these cases. Yes some fish can adapt faster but Silver and bighead carps comes from Amur River systems in Russia so and we have no evidence of Asian carps are reproducing in Minnesota.

It's clearly that you don't try to read up the studies on lethal temperatures, cold stress and cold tolerance on Native Fishes. The studies are available on Google and the studies will explain to you. So please take your time to read up on these studies. As I've explained that there is a limit of temperature/periods that a species can take and endurance for a specific period.

My bad, I didn't know you was an expert, my apologies..... I thought it took years of experience and education to become an expert on this topic, guess I'm wrong, I wont ever doubt an expert opinion again.

I guess we all better hope there will only be "mild" winters for the Gators to survive, otherwise they will parish.

 

[tampa_bass]

air temp. is irrelevant since the water can't go below 32 degrees otherwise it freezes..the ice and snow can actually can have a greenhouse effect on the water below it keeping it warmer.. depth, structure, power plant and industrial run off, even natural springs all create variables for fish to servive in an ecosystem.

 

[JasonsPlecosCichlids]

From Illinois DNR:

The alligator gars appear to be doing very well in Illinois waters. They have demonstrated successful overwinter survival in several waterbodies. Their growth rates have also been comparable or exceeded those of southern populations. The stocked fish are considered Mississippi River strain. Yes, they come from the same hatchery that Kentucky gets their fry from, as well as Missouri, Tennessee, and Arkansas.



Thanks,



Trent

 

[JasonsPlecosCichlids]

Why do I hear crickets now????

Here is some more information for our resident "expert". Way to many positive variables exist for this to be successful, instead of if, if, if, if, harsh, harsh, harsh weather....etc.

They were regularly found in Illinois waters in the early 1900's. Evidence tells us that temperatures have warmed since then and continue to do so. Plus, one of our stocking locations is an artificially warmed power plant cooling lake. Although we are at the northern limit of their historical distribution, I don't suspect (and it doesn't appear to be so far) a limiting factor to their reintroduction success.

Thanks,

Trent