Gravel ---> Sand Conversion

[CHOMPERS]

What about all the waste that stays in the gravel? Wouldn't it be better to remove as much of the fish waste via the filter and siphoning than to have a lot left in the gravel to add to nitrate (eventually)?

I would love to hear more on your opinion on this Chompers! I am grasping at straws trying to improve my nitrate levels. Even with large water changes, it never gets below 20ppm. Any ideas? (without hijacking the thread of course )

The majority of ammonia comes from fish urine. Yes, it is better to remove as much fish waste as possible when you do your weekly tank maintenance.

The myth is that gravel or UGF filters produce nitrates which is false. It only borrows time. The myth comes from people that don't do tank maintenance, and think that you can add food to a closed system and never have to remove the waste (as if the UGF magically makes it dissappear). They enjoyed a period of low nitrates while gunk built up in the gravel. When you let it go to the point of having 100ppm of nitrates and then do a 20% water change replacing with water having nitrates of 10ppm, the end result will only be a reduction to 82ppm. Having a fish load that produces 10ppm weekly, it will look like you never will make any progress. Combine that with bad fishkeeping habits and the nitrates will always be out of control. When the fishkeeper does say, 25% water changes every other month and then the nitrates are always through the roof, the blame has to lie somewhere and it ain't gonna be with the fishkeeper.

Now take yourself to your local fish store, and you are watching some guy buy his first fish tank along with ten oscars, twelve pacu, and six months worth of feeders (cycling be damned). What kind of filter is he going to have??? That's right, a UGF that came with the tank. A year later, with the same UGF, he joins a fish site and starts dishing out advise like an expert. After all, he has a full year of fish killing experience. Keep in mind that anyone with a computer can be an expert on the internet. He presents his speculation as fact and then the next guy, none the wiser, repeats what he has "learned" when another person is looking for answers (what I call monkey-see-monkey-do advise).


Have you been to one of those fish sites populated by stay-at-home moms that "take care" of their kids fish tanks? There's lots of weird stuff coming from those sites.

 

[CHOMPERS]

from what I understand...... Poop causes ammonia. beneficial bacteria will break down this ammonia and convert it to Nitrites. The bacteria will then further break it down to Nitrates, where it will stay until water changes remove them.

Now gravel wont trap teh nitrates, but gravel will however trap the poop which will in return KEEP releasing ammonia, which will KEEP converting to nitrites which will KEEP converting to Nitrates. So you will always have some Nitrates. So in a bare bottom tank, you can get every single bit of poop out, which will stop the ammonia to nitrite to nitrate cycle.

You'll always have some nitrate, but getting the poop out fast will limit the amount a bit.

Chompers please let me know if there is something you know that I dont, this is what I always understood, but I would love to know if I am missing somthing.

 

[CHOMPERS]

... I just don't know of a Nitrate filter that would work in my case.

Denitrators are not worth the money or hassle. Sometimes they work, other times they don't. They also don't replace trace minerals that you get from water changes.

Denitrators and protein skimmers are benifficial for saltwater aquariums because of the expense of the salt. In freshwater setups, water is way too cheap.

The plant/vine 'Pothos' is a good ammonia and nitrate consumer. It is a terrestrial plant (above water) and does not require a lot of sunlight, making it a good indoor plant. Dangle the roots in your sump or tank and it will eat the nitrates like crazy. I did an experiment a long time ago and a sprig of pothos with only six leaves consumed 20ppm in 1.5 gallons of water in about 24hours.

The best thing for keeping nitrates low is a drip system. It is easier to maintain a low nitrate level than to lower it.

Contributing factors to nitrates is what comes in with your source water and the bio-load. The bio-load is a product of total fish mass and how much they are being fed.

 

[TCZeli]

I got scared there for a moment that what I've been going by was wrong all these years lol. Thanks for the extra info Chompers

 

[GBG]

Talk about a hijacked thread! No sweat, it's all good info.

I'm still thinking about the conversion to sand. The part that may kill the deal for me is that all of the waste just sits on top of the sand, in plain view. I don't want to be vaccuming every other day just so I can enjoy looking at the tank. I'll ponder it some more. Thanks for the input. GBG

 

[GBG]

Guys, one last question:

For those of you that use sand, how do you vacuum the poop etc out of the tank? Doesn't the sand get sucked up too? Thanks

 

[smpage]

Guys, one last question:

For those of you that use sand, how do you vacuum the poop etc out of the tank? Doesn't the sand get sucked up too? Thanks

I just hold my python tube just above the sand and kinda swirl it around a bit. picks up the crap but not the sand!

 

[GBG]

I just hold my python tube just above the sand and kinda swirl it around a bit. picks up the crap but not the sand!

Thanks

 

[invokethegoddess]

Have you been to one of those fish sites populated by stay-at-home moms that "take care" of their kids fish tanks? There's lots of weird stuff coming from those sites.

I hate to derail this thread...there is a lot of useful info...I too am thinking of changing my 100 gallon to sand and starting with sand in my new 450 gallon. But I am a little at the comment about sites being populated by "S-A-H mom's" etc. Being a "stay at home mom with fish", I'm wondering what sites you mean...I have never come across ANY sites that are populated with women...Fishkeeping is definately a Male dominated hobby. If anything most of the misinformation is probably coming from the men that dominate the hobby and the forums... I understand that being educated in the science of fishkeeping you must come accross alot of idiots not willing to learn or take advice.....If we are going to take into account stereotypes....I have a hard time believing that the majority of the "misinformed idiots" out there are women.
No disrespect Chompers...I'm just trying to inform and educate myself...but have a hard time when I am slightly put off by an "almost" insult ...You didn't quite cross the line...but I felt I had to say something.

 

[invokethegoddess]

I guess what I am trying to say is there is alot of people out there that go to the Pet Store or Wal mart and buy the 33 gallon kit, a couple of Oscars and some neon gravel and then dish out "their opinion" or their new found "wisdom" on the forums. I just don't thing that they are all necessarily stay at home mom's, that's all.