Growth in the wild versus a glass cage!

[channarox]

That is what I just said!!

what i meant was....if we were providing such excellent care,and the fish never got to the size theyre supposed to.
maybe even HALF the size.
we might not be giving them proper care at all.
good care to us does not always equal good care to the fish.

 

[shamrock]

Okay then what is?
I don't want to put words in your mouth but you seem to imply that I am delirious and claim to give my CK proper care but don't. The one I have is in a 1032 gallon pond-if that isn't large enough I don't know what is. Have you gone to the CK threads and read the info on their common size.
I kind of get what you are saying but like Beblondie stated we can't compete with the life they have in the wild-impossible-no matter how large the tank or what we feed them it can't be done. I mean a lot of you make it sound like we shouldn't even keep large fish.
I think some people go overboard and to be honest are ridiculous. On another forum a guy got flamed for keeping a Silver Aro in a 340 gallon tank. I asked how large should the tank be and the guy stated something like 5,000 gallons! I really have limited knowledge on Aros but why would you need 5,000 gallons for a fish that peaks at 40 inches?
At the same time it does bother me when people purchase fish like RTC, TSN, or Pacu and try to put them in a 125 gallon tank. Point is I think a few people go a little overboard when it comes to giving advice on the size of tank a fish needs.

 

[channarox]

Okay then what is?
I don't want to put words in your mouth but you seem to imply that I am delirious and claim to give my CK proper care but don't. The one I have is in a 1032 gallon pond-if that isn't large enough I don't know what is. Have you gone to the CK threads and read the info on their common size.
I kind of get what you are saying but like Beblondie stated we can't compete with the life they have in the wild-impossible-no matter how large the tank or what we feed them it can't be done. I mean a lot of you make it sound like we shouldn't even keep large fish.
I think some people go overboard and to be honest are ridiculous. On another forum a guy got flamed for keeping a Silver Aro in a 340 gallon tank. I asked how large should the tank be and the guy stated something like 5,000 gallons! I really have limited knowledge on Aros but why would you need 5,000 gallons for a fish that peaks at 40 inches?
At the same time it does bother me when people purchase fish like RTC, TSN, or Pacu and try to put them in a 125 gallon tank. Point is I think a few people go a little overboard when it comes to giving advice on the size of tank a fish needs.

that post wasnt directed at you.
yes,we cant do it right.
no one can.
but we can try as hard as we can...especially with fish so special like these.

 

[swede]

If anyone saw the last episode of river monsters, he line caught a red-tailed catfish that had to have been over 4 feet long. I thoroughly believe that despite having predators and other environmental challenges, fish in the wild will always grow bigger than captives

 

[knifegill]

Don't forget seasonal changes that cue biological responses in fish. Aquarium fish usually don't experience a flood season, normal starvation periods and population explosions/decreases to challenge them. Whether for the good or bad, it's a reality. And what's optimum for one individual or species may not be good for the next. Let's face it, we're taking creatures out of their homes and sticking them in boxes. Some of us have really impressive boxes, but it's still captivity, and some will do better in it while others will not. Look at Mbuna! They grow larger in captivity than in their natural habitat. Either size isn't a measure of health or the wild isn't good for them. This is not a puzzle for the casual observer. And an observer I am.

 

[shamrock]

knifegill-awesome point I too at a much younger age had Mbuna and yes they got larger in captivity than in the wild. And yes I have heard and seen for example Clown Knifes that surpassed the two foot mark-but not the norm.
On the otherhand you have fish that do get as large in captivity (if not bigger) than in the wild RTC and Pacu come to mind.

 

[knifegill]

Heh. You just reminded me of an early encounter with a clown knife. I must have been about fourteen years old. A tropical fish store was closing and I went in to look around. They had a clown knife which was at least three feet long in a six-foot tank. There were only two fish in that tank, but he was clearly the dominant life-form. I was scared. This creature was longer than my arm! I could see his teeth, he was panting. The water was totally brown. I just stepped backward slowly and an old guy laughed at me.

 

[shamrock]

Wow! One thing I will agree on is I am amazed of how available some of these fish are-for example Arapaimi Gigas-I see for sale online often-scary cause how many people have the tank for such a large fish?

 

[knifegill]

I'm sure more people purchase them than can actually keep them. Sad for sure, but nothing compared to the magnitude of the suffering of goldfish...
Fish bowl. Fish bowl. Say it out loud. It still sounds normal, even though we know it's wrong. Poor goldies all over the world.

 

[Toby_H]

1. Most (if not all) of the fish we are discussing have hundreds if not thousands of babies at a time… and do this several times per year… Out of these thousand of fish born in the wild, how many survive to adulthood? Very few… survival of the fittest… in the wild only the fittest fish become adults and are thus considered when establishing an “average”… yet in home aquarium we take the whole brood (captive born or wild caught as babies) and nurture every one of them. The absolute vast majority of our fish were not meant to survive to adulthood… yet we expect them to reach max size?

2. As mentioned on page one… there is a world of difference between “max size” and “average size”… The tallest man in the world was 10’ tall… and I’m only 6’1”… does that mean I’m sickly?

3. I’ve tested ponds locally and have never once found a trace of ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. All of these things have a negative impact on fish and we feel we are doing good to keep our nitrates under 40 ppm… when in the wild the fish are most likely never once going to taste 1 ppm of nitrate…

5. Furthermore, hormones are highly diluted in the wild and are highly concentrated in our home aquaria. These hormones heavily affect the growth/development of our fish.

4. A fish that is designed to live in a river, will never be able to thrive in a tank or pond as it could in a river. If it’s length & muscle mass are there to help it maneuver in deep fast moving water… should we expect shallow slowly moving water to develop it’s mass?



What is the difference between a fish that lives in the wild and a fish that lives in even the largest of home aquaria… these differences are the reasons they do not attain as large of sizes. To suggest that captive bred fish do not attain wild sizes is to admit that they are being kept in a compromised environment… there’s no other way to justify it…

Does this make us bad people for denying them their natural environment… well yes and no… the reality is the vast majority of our fish would not have survived their first year, much less grew to adulthood. So at least we are giving them the chance to live… I know I’d rather live in somewhat compromised conditions than be eaten. Heck most of us (the people!) on this planet do live in less than ideal conditions.

Is that an excuse to keep a fish, or other animal, in substandard conditions… hell no! But who is the board commissioner that sets the standards? I hope it’s not the guy who lives in an apartment and keeps his dog in a crate while he’s at work all day

This is a great topic to discuss, and I appreciate many of the views… but as none of us are truly supplying ideal environments for our fish, our other pets and in most cases for ourselves… let’s just try to be a little kinder as we discuss it… be honest by all means… no need to sugarcoat anything… but no need to tape it to the end of a baseball bat either…

*group hug*