The rest of the fish arent even months old in the tank and i have no adult fish but ill try more frequent water changes. i have been in the hobby for 20 years and i have never had fish grow this slow. Thanks for the advice
Growth rate question
- Thread starter Mikegoeshard
- Start date
I definitely agree with duanes, but I will say mine were in a 320+ gallon tank with an auto water drip of 40 gal/day and 2 50% weekly water changes and 4-6 feedings per day. The other fish exploded in size, hence why they tried to eat the festae...lol
While I would normally agree with Duane, I don't think so in this case. The OP stated: "All are new but the rt, the sax and the pleco" ....... I can't see the pleco, but the rest of those fish are so small, I can barely see them in that tank. Plus there is an additional 60 gallons of water in the sump. While personally I would have done weekly water changes, I'm not convinced that lack of water changes is the issue here.
...... and most discus breeders pump up their fish with mammal meat, so they have no choice but to perform massive daily water changes. Warm water + beef = beef soup!
...... and most discus breeders pump up their fish with mammal meat, so they have no choice but to perform massive daily water changes. Warm water + beef = beef soup!
Below is a shot of an @2" festae, soon after getting it, there were also 4 or 5 others the same size
here, another shot from the same group about 5 months later
and although I would agree, festae are not the fastest growers, I believe the frequent water changes help. I also believe not only adults produce growth hindering pheromones, that need to be removed with water changes. The idea the nitrate is the only necessitating factor to do water changes does not wash with me.
ornatum, one of festae's closest cousins, is also know to be a slow grower.
Below is a shot of a 1" juvie from Feb 2013
one of the same group, at about 7" in Oct 2015,
More than anything else, even food, I believe water changes are a major contributing factor to good growth.
here, another shot from the same group about 5 months later
and although I would agree, festae are not the fastest growers, I believe the frequent water changes help. I also believe not only adults produce growth hindering pheromones, that need to be removed with water changes. The idea the nitrate is the only necessitating factor to do water changes does not wash with me.
ornatum, one of festae's closest cousins, is also know to be a slow grower.
Below is a shot of a 1" juvie from Feb 2013
one of the same group, at about 7" in Oct 2015,
More than anything else, even food, I believe water changes are a major contributing factor to good growth.
Well im moving them to a 125 to grow out by themselves ill do more frequent water changes on that tank. Thats for the help!
Has there been any proof about growth inhibiting pheromones. In a large body of water, river / lake it would just be diluted or washed away or is it something that's expelled from the fish as a waste product that only effects them in a closed system
A number of years ago, when I was first hearing the pheromone theory, I decided to try my own experiment to see if it would ring true.
I had a pair of Vieja zonata spawn and decided I wanted to keep about 8 , so took 4 fry and put them in a 50 gal tank to grow out, and did my normal every other day water changes.
I also took another 4 of the fry from the same spawn, and grew them out in a different 50 gal tank, and did 1 water change per week.
Both tanks received the same (within reason) kind and amount of food, same light cycle, and same filtration.
At 1 year the fish in the multiple weekly water change were an average 2" larger than the ones in the once per week tank.
Was it pheromones, or some other intangible? not sure. And I lost interest at about 1 year, because in both tanks (I believe 50s are just too small for zonata) they were beginning to kill each other.
I had a pair of Vieja zonata spawn and decided I wanted to keep about 8 , so took 4 fry and put them in a 50 gal tank to grow out, and did my normal every other day water changes.
I also took another 4 of the fry from the same spawn, and grew them out in a different 50 gal tank, and did 1 water change per week.
Both tanks received the same (within reason) kind and amount of food, same light cycle, and same filtration.
At 1 year the fish in the multiple weekly water change were an average 2" larger than the ones in the once per week tank.
Was it pheromones, or some other intangible? not sure. And I lost interest at about 1 year, because in both tanks (I believe 50s are just too small for zonata) they were beginning to kill each other.
There are a number of papers out there that discuss this subject, the following article is pretty good (and I think fairly accurate) read on the subject.
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/stunted-growth-means-stunted-lives/
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/stunted-growth-means-stunted-lives/
Hey
duanes
, thanks for the tip. I had been doing weekly 30% changes, may up it a bit. I took bought a batch of Festae and can attest to how slow they grow. Recently though after having had them about 6months or so, they really started to accelerate their growth.
I got a 6 pack of Yellowjackets at the same time that initially grew about twice as fast as the Festae, but the Festae have since caught up and in a couple of cases surpassed the largest one.
duanes
, thanks for the tip. I had been doing weekly 30% changes, may up it a bit. I took bought a batch of Festae and can attest to how slow they grow. Recently though after having had them about 6months or so, they really started to accelerate their growth. I got a 6 pack of Yellowjackets at the same time that initially grew about twice as fast as the Festae, but the Festae have since caught up and in a couple of cases surpassed the largest one.
We will see how it works out my tank is set up and cycling so they will have a new home soon. Ill test your theroy ill measure them when i move them and document how much they growth in the next couple of months ill update this thread should be easy to calculate average growth rate since i got them
