Has anyone seen this yet?
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I haven't seen it yet but am familiar with what is portrayed in the film. I believe it is supposed to be a documentary and does tell the story of Tilikum, a male killer whale, who has been associated with two deaths and did actually kill a trainer named Dawn Brancheau, among other orca issues.
I don't support Orcas in captivity, for many reasons, but the main one being is they cannot be properly cared for and suffer greatly because of it. They are *one* of the many species that do not belong in captivity and are exploited greatly. I actually wrote a paper about keeping wild animals in captivity when I was younger and used Orcas as an example. Here's some of that paper:
"For example, Killer Whales (or Orcas) can live up to 50-80 years old and can swim up to a hundred miles a day. Males typically weigh in around 8,000 to 11,000 pounds and measure as long as 20-30 feet. They are extremely social creatures and spend most of their life in a matrilineal family called a pod. Each pod is different and has a unique form of whistles, clicks and calls to communicate which is passed on from generation to generation which is commonly called a dialect.
In captivity, a Killer Whales life expectancy is in its 20s, which is dramatically shorter then expected in the wild. By United States law, they define an average adult Killer Whale as being 24 feet in length and require twice that in length for a circular pool (48 feet). They require the depth to be a minimum of 12 feet. The sad fact is a pool this size may hold up to two Orcas, barely giving them enough room to have any personal space. It seems like a lot of room for a human but if you’re a 5,000 ton, 20 foot Killer Whale, this is just a stretch compared to the vastness of the sea. One such whale in a small tiny tank is Lolita at the Miami Seaquarium and she is one of many.
There have been few reported attacks by Killer Whales in the wild but none were fatal. In captivity, there have been multiple aggressive incidents towards people and other Killer Whales, many of them ending in fatalities. One infamous incident happened at SeaWorld on February 24th, 2010 during an afternoon performance. Tilikum, an adult male Killer Whale, grabbed the ponytail of his trainer, Dawn Brancheau and pulled her into the water. She died shortly after from drowning and traumatic injuries. Another incident, which occurred years earlier in August of 1989, involved the death of a female Killer Whale named Kandu V. She was a dominant female and attempted to “rake” (forcefully scratch with their teeth) a female newcomer named Corky. As Kandu V charged Corky, she missed and continued to swim into a back pool where she rammed a wall. She ruptured an artery in her jaw and died of a hemorrhage after 45 minutes.
In the wild adult Orcas would enjoy a wide variety of food such as fish, squid, walruses, seals, sea lions, penguins, sharks, turtles, and other whales. They can consume up to 500 pounds of it in one day. At SeaWorld, they are fed half that (140-240 pounds) at erratic intervals throughout the day to mimic what would occur in the wild and only fed a diet of fish, herring, capelin, salmon, mackerel.
Wild female Killer Whales are sexually mature at age 15 and will usually have a baby every 5 years until they are 40 years old.Male Killer whales are sexually mature around the same age but typically do not reproduce until they are 21 years of age. In captivity, Orcas reproduce at much younger ages and the calves have a very low survival rate. Corky II became the first Killer Whale to become pregnant in captivity, giving birth on February 28, 1977. The calf only lived for 18 days. Corky II went on to give birth 6 more times and the longest surviving calf, Kiva, only lived for 47 days. A two year old Killer Whale named Katina was 2 years of age when she was captured in October 1978 and became pregnant in the early spring of 1984 at SeaWorld San Diego. In September of 1985 she gave birth to a female calf named Kalina, who became the first captive born Orca to survive. Kalina, at an early age of 7 and a half, gave birth to her first calf, a male named Keet. Orcas in captivity do not possess the right set of mothering skills since most were captured when they were young. They were not taught the right ways to bear young and successfully care for them. Many of them have died shortly thereafter or lived for a few years and died of disease.
Killer Whales in captivity are commonly prone to diseases undoubtedly caused by stress. They are forced to live in chemically altered water, forced into false social groupings and limited stimulation that is not natural. Performing tricks for food or to make a crowd happy is not natural for a whale. A common illness in captive Killer Whales is pneumonia and in 2007 killed a captive Orca named Taku. Collapsed dorsal fins are a common site on most captive male Orcas (and some females) but rarely occurs in the wild."
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I remember reading somewhere that Native American fisherman gave Orcas the name "Blackfish" because they were powerful and awe inspiring hunters.
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Orcas don't all 'suffer' under human care. They also are on record as outliving the natural wild life span - just like the fish in our tanks. Knowledge gained from controlled environments has lead us to better protection of them in the wild.
I haven't seen any info other than second hand talk about the movie, but I would guess it to be one sided based on what I've heard.
The thing that hurts the most is that the public is caught up in mis-information mixed with emotion and spreading is a fact.
For example - human fatalities in controlled settings. How many were the persons fault, and not the animal? Fact: Almost 100% of humans hurt or killed were operating outside very specific safety protocols and guidelines for working with aquatic predatory animals.
I haven't seen any info other than second hand talk about the movie, but I would guess it to be one sided based on what I've heard.
The thing that hurts the most is that the public is caught up in mis-information mixed with emotion and spreading is a fact.
For example - human fatalities in controlled settings. How many were the persons fault, and not the animal? Fact: Almost 100% of humans hurt or killed were operating outside very specific safety protocols and guidelines for working with aquatic predatory animals.
I would second this. As for my personal feelings - I am torn on how I feel about certian animals in captivity. There are some I don't think should be kept, there are some I think if you do keep them then they need to be offered more space and accomidations etc.
Coming from someone who has worked around said industry I can tell you that trainers of marine mammals do everything they can to take care of those animal, provide enrichment, and ensure that they can offer the best that they are able to for them and are typically underpaid for it - but there they because they love what they do they want to ensure the animals are getting the proper care to the best of their abilities (the ones that make desicions tend to be at the top of the latter - the ones that actually take care of them are at the bottom- they are not always in control of what a park chooses or doesn't choose to do).
Many of these companies put money into research projects to help better understand many of these animals - echolocation tends, signature whistles, how they communicate, why they strand themselves, etc. tends to be the largest areas of research at many faclites. However they put research in to many other things as well to better understand ways to conserve or help them.
Its is what it is - many people would probably not care about many of the animals in insititutions if they didn't get to see them up close and "fall in love" with them - so to say. You can use these places to educate and help them better understand why you need conserve these animals. Obviously some parks are just in it for the money - which is sad and these tend to be the parks I have the most issues with.
There seems to be a big battle going on between those who support it and those who oopose it. The biggest problem in that debate is all of the mis-information that gets thrown around. I know that Peta once said that dolphins only live 10-20years in captivity and live up to 40 years in the wild. That for example is an incorrect fact, dolphins can live into their mid 40s in captivity (we've had several that old at the facility I used to work at). Twisting facts around is never going to help anyones cause.
As for saftey there are protocols to follow and most accidents are the fault of someone not following protocol. You also have to understand that you are working with an animal sometimes they might bite or scratch you and there are cases when its no one's fault not the person or the animal its just the animal being an animal and doing what it does. If you choose to work in the filed you also chose to take that kind of risk and work with these animals. It might be no ones fault, it might be an wild animal being an wild animal or it might be human error and not following saftey protocols. Most of the time people tend not to follow their saftey protocols and that is obviously dangerous when working around any animal.
And just how is it known they don't suffer under human care? I think the 'record' is still out on the longevity of orcas in the wild.
Are you blaming Dawn Brancheau's death on her not following protocols? What exactly did she do wrong?
I have not seen this movie, but I have seen The Cove, and when the trainer for the TV show Flipper says he personally witnessed his dolphins suffering because of being in captivity, what is his agenda? He saw it first hand, and the evidence changed his mind about captivity.
Studying these animals is very important, and yes, maybe hold some captive for this purpose, but to build a money making enterprise around capturing these animals and forcing them to perform doesn't seem right.
Are you blaming Dawn Brancheau's death on her not following protocols? What exactly did she do wrong?
I have not seen this movie, but I have seen The Cove, and when the trainer for the TV show Flipper says he personally witnessed his dolphins suffering because of being in captivity, what is his agenda? He saw it first hand, and the evidence changed his mind about captivity.
Studying these animals is very important, and yes, maybe hold some captive for this purpose, but to build a money making enterprise around capturing these animals and forcing them to perform doesn't seem right.
Researchers have found Orcas in the wild they know to be at least 80 years of age and some they suspect potentially were over 100. There aren't any captive Orcas that old.
There's also a lot of interesting rebuttal about combining orcas that are naturally pescivorious and those that eat mostly mammals, as those populations don't intermingle or breed even when they briefly share the same territory in the wild. This is one factor, combined with smaller living space and closer proximity to others, that has lead to more serious "raking" type injuries from fighting than you see in the wild.
Oddly this isn't an issue I'm all that passionate about. I'm not going to be out there protesting Seaworld as again, I think people oggling at the orcas does generate genuine sympathy and curiosity, which can lead to improvements in both husbandry and environmentalism. If I had unlimited money, I'd build my own wale enclosure, many times the size of some Seaworld's. I just don't think being in a Seaworld is a great life for an orca.
When I glanced at the post, I thought it said Oscars instead of Orcas. Now that would've been a story.
I am not at liberty to say what happend with the last death, but there were protocols broken which lead to it.
The Cove is a joke - I hate to say it. I'd suggest learning the whole story. Comparing what he did in the 50s to the modern methods used today a far cry from a legit comparison. That's like comparing a car from 1950 to the cars of today. Read up on the rest of that guys life after he snapped, went off the deep end and was fired. Read about his crimial record. His agenda was pulling himself out of the mud with a huge paycheck from a world wide movie. The facility he wanted to tear down is one of the top breeding facilities in the US for dolphins. They have learned and developed some of the best husbandry practices out there.
As for wild orcas being 100 vs captive orcas being 100 - of course not. Ocras haven't been in human care for 100 years. It's physically impossible to make that call. There are some well over 50, though. In fact, one of them is one of the first group collected back in the 50's. They forget to tell you that part - a healthy adult orca under human care since 1955.
The money marine parks put back into conservation is well beyond what they get credit for. Most of the wild researchers are getting money generated from animals in human care. Again, that just goes back to getting actual facts out there.
Thanks for all the "input" guys and gals... I have to say in a nutshell I learned a lot.. and i'm also wanting to actually see this movie for a few reasons... Matt and Ash I really appreciate your experiances here. Its really something the rest of us outside looking in can't understand unless we did it. And that's the honest truth. I show pictures of working with large reptiles and to this day people ask me why I never got attacked/hurt ect... and the only way I can describe it is I had and still have a lot of respect of the capabilities of every pet I own, and every animal I meet/work with. I can only imagine the shock/awe of working with such large animals as marine mammals.
I know some advocates have called for the whales death as its not his first "infraction" but maybe its best he was just retired as hes obviously showing his lack of desire to "do his job" I know If my horse is having a bad day any plans I had get changed... I'm sure they have such things in place.. and if not maybe they will learn from the whole thing. It's like blaming a dog for attacking someone who ignores all the dogs warning signs that its going to bite...that kinda arrogance/lack or respect is how most people get injured when dealing with large animals. I can't believe the whale just "snapped" it may appear that, that is what happened but I seriously doubt no one noticed his warning signs if they knew what to look for. and I have a hard time believing an animal that has hurt trainers in the past's warning signs wheren't well known/obviouse to those who worked with him. maybe i'm crazy but that would be some of the first things I wanted to learn about an animal w/ his rep. And no i'm not "blameing" anyone for anything... idk why "someone" always has to be "blamed" for things... Frankly I don't know enough about any of it to even think about pointing fingers. Sometimes you both just have a bad day...and when trainer/owner and animal do.. accidents and "whoops" happen... sometimes at the cost of life.. and sometimes you catch it and step back before something really bad happens... but I can say 100% as Ash brought up.. when working with large animals particularly predatory ones there is ALWAYS a chance of being hurt or worse, and anyone working with these animals knows full well.
I'm not a fan of touch pools, or forcing an animal to "perform" but I can see why these performances themselves are enriching the lives of the whales/dolphins ect... and how touch pools can be educational tools... which in turn draws attention to these animals needs in the wild and the pressures... it's a fine edge that is different for almost everyone.
I'm surprised no ones seen this movie.. lol
I know some advocates have called for the whales death as its not his first "infraction" but maybe its best he was just retired as hes obviously showing his lack of desire to "do his job" I know If my horse is having a bad day any plans I had get changed... I'm sure they have such things in place.. and if not maybe they will learn from the whole thing. It's like blaming a dog for attacking someone who ignores all the dogs warning signs that its going to bite...that kinda arrogance/lack or respect is how most people get injured when dealing with large animals. I can't believe the whale just "snapped" it may appear that, that is what happened but I seriously doubt no one noticed his warning signs if they knew what to look for. and I have a hard time believing an animal that has hurt trainers in the past's warning signs wheren't well known/obviouse to those who worked with him. maybe i'm crazy but that would be some of the first things I wanted to learn about an animal w/ his rep. And no i'm not "blameing" anyone for anything... idk why "someone" always has to be "blamed" for things... Frankly I don't know enough about any of it to even think about pointing fingers. Sometimes you both just have a bad day...and when trainer/owner and animal do.. accidents and "whoops" happen... sometimes at the cost of life.. and sometimes you catch it and step back before something really bad happens... but I can say 100% as Ash brought up.. when working with large animals particularly predatory ones there is ALWAYS a chance of being hurt or worse, and anyone working with these animals knows full well.
I'm not a fan of touch pools, or forcing an animal to "perform" but I can see why these performances themselves are enriching the lives of the whales/dolphins ect... and how touch pools can be educational tools... which in turn draws attention to these animals needs in the wild and the pressures... it's a fine edge that is different for almost everyone.
I'm surprised no ones seen this movie.. lol
