Has anyone seen this yet?

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Is the movie even out yet? One of my co-workers mentioned it today, saying it's "being made".

Another little tid bit on info I'll toss out is that these 'show' animals are never forced to perform. Nothing is ever withheld from them if they choose not to take part in a show. It happens all the time. They don't get anything negative for not being in a show. They still get all of their food, enrichment, medical attention etc... There are very strict rules (USDA and various regulating bodies) that are in place to ensure that animals get 100% care 100% of the time. What you see them get 'on stage' is only a small fraction of a daily diet more along the lines of a treat/snack. Any food they would get as reinforcement during a show will still be given them afterwards.
 
Zoodiver said:
Is the movie even out yet? One of my co-workers mentioned it today, saying it's "being made".

Another little tid bit on info I'll toss out is that these 'show' animals are never forced to perform. Nothing is ever withheld from them if they choose not to take part in a show. It happens all the time. They don't get anything negative for not being in a show. They still get all of their food, enrichment, medical attention etc... There are very strict rules (USDA and various regulating bodies) that are in place to ensure that animals get 100% care 100% of the time. What you see them get 'on stage' is only a small fraction of a daily diet more along the lines of a treat/snack. Any food they would get as reinforcement during a show will still be given them afterwards.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt they receive the best medical care, nutrition, etc.

The question is do they have the mental functioning so that they feel tortured, and what does the lack of space and natural socialization do to them. You could house a person in a prison cell with the best food and medical care and have them live to 80 but is that enough?

I don't feel passionate about the issue either way but I do wonder if they suffer.

I don't think it's as clear cut as you state.


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Once you work with them and see what the media portrays is very wrong, it's pretty clear cut.
I will be the first to admit I had a lot of bad assumptions about them until I saw first hand what happens with in the facilities of today. We (in general) put too much human emotion onto them. People like to 'feel' this and that - but it is really nothing more than feelings based on what they 'know'. Much of the information I see passed off as 'fact' is 'fact' from the late 50's and early 60's. It isn't up to date information that is being fed to the public. Even in the research paper KissofCrimson quoted in post #12 the info is out dated. Life expectancy is not 20-30. As I posted, many are much older. Pool volume and shape requirements are outdated and has been significantly increased for todays standards. The feeding info is slanted - as different groups of orcas in the wild prey on different things, they all don't eat such a wide variety. There are pods that eat only fish or only seals. In fact, it's known that they find a food source in the area that supplies the proper nutritional needs. Those needs are matched under human care. I've never heard of an orca in a facility that wan't fed properly. Orcas in captivity are not prone to any diseases caused by stress. They are also not living in chemically altered water.

We need to look at where our information comes from.

Was marine mammal care in the 50's and 60's good? No, of course not. However, it was the best they could do at the time. Is marine mammal care in 2013 better? Yes, by far. Is it the best it will be? No, clearly every day that passes something new is learned. Changes are made and we can offer even better care.

I hope and pray that if I die due to an animal accident, the public is clearly told the story of how I am the one who made the mistake - not the animal. If I break the protocol, I want everyone to hear about me being stupid and screwing it up. If it happens without protocol being broken, I hope the team around me learns and changes the protocol so the same mistake isn't made again.
 
Personally, I have been quite vocal in the fact that I dont think Cetaceans should be kept in captivity. This is a large animal, and it's not a big Grouper or Shark that may frequent the same reef or wreck for years if the conditions are right and it's never required to move. This is an animal that roams the open sea every day for miles. There is just no way to even come close to that in captivity. Not to mention how intelligent they are... if you have a primate as a pet and dont keep it mentally stimulated, it will destroy things. I feel like Cetaceans would do the same if they had limbs. I watched the Dolphins at the Baltimore aquarium try to eat a plastic device, and I wasnt all that surprised.
 
Zoodiver said:
Once you work with them and see what the media portrays is very wrong, it's pretty clear cut.
I will be the first to admit I had a lot of bad assumptions about them until I saw first hand what happens with in the facilities of today. We (in general) put too much human emotion onto them. People like to 'feel' this and that - but it is really nothing more than feelings based on what they 'know'. Much of the information I see passed off as 'fact' is 'fact' from the late 50's and early 60's. It isn't up to date information that is being fed to the public. Even in the research paper KissofCrimson quoted in post #12 the info is out dated. Life expectancy is not 20-30. As I posted, many are much older. Pool volume and shape requirements are outdated and has been significantly increased for todays standards. The feeding info is slanted - as different groups of orcas in the wild prey on different things, they all don't eat such a wide variety. There are pods that eat only fish or only seals. In fact, it's known that they find a food source in the area that supplies the proper nutritional needs. Those needs are matched under human care. I've never heard of an orca in a facility that wan't fed properly. Orcas in captivity are not prone to any diseases caused by stress. They are also not living in chemically altered water.

We need to look at where our information comes from.
Click to expand...

I'm curious to know the names and locations of these Orcas that have lived so long. The longest lived Orca in captivity is Lolita (formally known as Tokitae) followed by Corky. They both are in their middle to late forties and have been in captivity for 40 of those years.

As for space requirements, the Section 3.104 (1) (I) of the Animal Welfare Act (AWA) states that the minimum horizontal dimension of a pool for Group I cetaceans (which includes the Killer whale) has to be at least 7.32 meters (24 ft) or two times the average adult length (48 ft) of the longest species of Group I cetacean housed therein. The minimum depth requirement for all cetaceans in Group I and II is one-half (6 ft) the average adult length of the longest species to be housed therein, which basically means if you add the other half, you get 12 ft.

If anyone is interested in reading the whole document for the Animal Welfare Act, they can do so on the USDA's website. Here's the link: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_welfare/downloads/awr/awr.pdf

You also said that Orcas in captivity aren't prone to diseases by stress. How have you come to that conclusion? Why do Orcas die so young then? There has to be a reason and the most likely has to be stress caused by being in unnatural conditions. By the way the most common cause of death for Orcas in captivity is pneumonia, septicemia, and other types of infections. Diseases that they could possibly manage in the wild because their immune systems aren't as compromised like they are in captivity.

And unless they are importing water from the ocean, they are living in artificially salinated and chlorinated water, which is chemically altered.


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There is so much more to this issue then I feel like typing at the moment but one thing I will say is thinking that you can sustain an Orca in captivity is laughable. There just isn't a way to duplicate what they get in the wild into captivity and this goes for many species of animal kept in captivity.

@Zoodiver: You may have faults with Ric O'Barry for this or that but the fact remains that the entertainment business fuels the need for dolphins, which in the end is the death of them. We don't need dolphinariums or marine parks to educate people about these animals. Yes it's an easier way to see them but I'm sure people would gladly pay to see them in the wild if they knew how much they suffered living in captivity.

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I am really curious as to your background with orcas or marine mammals in general. But I'm going to respectfully bow out of this thread. This is clearly a heated topic and I don't want to add to a battle that isn't needed.
There is a lot of information that the general public doesn't get to see unless you are exposed to it first hand on a daily basis. I will leave it at that.
 
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