HELP My Rays!

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
The adults are having a tough time too. My female is extremely pregnant but i expect an abortion soon...
 
aldiaz33 said:
I'll be blunt...not sure why you are in denial about your water parameters.

Almost everything I have seen/read suggests Nitrate levels of 40 to 50PPM as the maximum. That's the upper limit; you should be aiming for lower. Your levels are about twice as high.

Why do you feel 80PPM and Ammonia readings of anything other than 0 are fine? Your fish are definitely showing signs of illness and your water parameters are far from ideal.

Have you considered adding Pothos to your sump to help lower those NO3 levels?
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while i agree that his parameters are indeed off, it's the ammonia that is causing the main issue. the nitrates by themselves are nothing to worry about at those levels. rays will breed and flourish in nitrate levels exceeding 200ppm. now add a smidge of ammonia to the ratio, and you're talking death city.

RD. said:
Did everyone else miss this?

Without any doubt in my mind, that is what triggered your problems. I'm an old fart and have seen water main breaks wipe out entire tanks of fish, several times over the years, when a hobbyist didn't realize that their tap water quality was not normal. When a water main is repaired all sorts of toxic metals etc can get stirred up into the water line, and my advice is to NEVER perform a water change in your tank until at least 24 hrs have passed since the repair, longer if the water quality doesn't seem like it's back to normal. Some of the crud kicked up from a water main repair will make a small spike in ammonia seem like a trip to Disneyland for a fish!

With regards to ammonia, the OP stated; .......... which can easily cause a small, but temporary, spike in ammonia - in anyones tank.

As far as nitrates, while I doubt they are the cause, the nitrates could be a LOT lower, and the high levels certainly add to stress levels in most fish. If the water lines have cleared up, start daily water changes and watch for improvement. I would personally not add Melafix, or even salt at this point. Focus on improving water quality, add carbon if need be, most toxic elements aren't easy to test for.

Good luck.
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i was thinking the same thing RD, though i'm not sure whether he is on city or well water. rain and runoff in a well setting will absolutely pooch your levels and it is best to avoid water changes around rainstorms.
usually city water is "safer" though the city will also add in more chemicals to combat the increased runoff as well. my city did so and completely boned the dog, giving us a nice hit of 4ppm of free-floating ammonia in our distributed water because some dumbass didn't add in the equal measure of chlorine to make chloromine. this exact mistake on their part wiped out 2 of my tanks, including my stingrays.

DB junkie said:
Would any of this water main crap get past whole house carbon blocks?

I've never trusted straight unfiltered tap water.

Are you filtering the tap water? IF not now, I sure as heck would be making a trip to the hardware store.......
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generally speaking, carbon will pull out chemicals, odors and discoloration. it won't pull out naturally occurring things, such as ammonia, copper, zinc, etc. neither will it remove the bacteria or detritus/feces from runoff say from farms upstream.

Mr. Allgood said:
The adults are having a tough time too. My female is extremely pregnant but i expect an abortion soon...
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sorry to hear, i know how hard it is to lose your entire collection, your time, money, effort, joy, hopes. i hope yours pull through.
 
Ammonia has been reading 0 other than the one time after feeding. To add insult to injury, my new female bit the head off a delhezi last night
 
DB junkie said:
Would any of this water main crap get past whole house carbon blocks?
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Yes.

I have a commercial grade RO/DI unit (4,000 gallons/day) on location for a big display. The city water is horrid to the point where I'm changing out 2 cubic feet of carbon and 2 cubic feet of DI almost every three/four weeks from the elevated levels they run it with. (For comparison, a similar unit on a different city water supply gets done once a year.)
When they do a big hit of ammonia/chlorine/chlroamine/ammonium/nitrate and all of the other wonderful (sarcasm) chemicals they feel like hitting it with due to a line break or other misc contamination, my unit is worthless after about 10 minutes in of the water being pumped in. My water comes out of the unit with ammonia readings over 8, TDS over 100. I keep a surplus of the DI and carbon as well as the extra RO membranes on hand so I can swap them after the city is done with their flush. Usually takes a day or two for the lines to clear prior to it getting back to a level that my RO/DI unit can handle.
 
So by simply monitoring TDS coming out of the RO you can tell if the water is safe to use or not correct?

IF carbon blocks won't take out stuff like ammonia, copper, or zinc then is it safe to assume the only thing that will is an RO membrane since whole house carbon blocks are basically the same as the first few stages of RO? Or are some of the things like ammonia going to get through RO/DI? See, I feel like an idiot here cause I assume that RO strips almost everything (99% pure water) and now it seems that last 1% it misses contains an awful lot of nasty.......

I'd love a lesson on what can get through RO and what can't......

Good info Matt! Thank you!
 
Bout to euthanize #3. Do you think setting up a kiddie pool at a friends would be a good idea if I take my bioballs with for an established filter?
 
DB junkie said:
So by simply monitoring TDS coming out of the RO you can tell if the water is safe to use or not correct?

IF carbon blocks won't take out stuff like ammonia, copper, or zinc then is it safe to assume the only thing that will is an RO membrane since whole house carbon blocks are basically the same as the first few stages of RO? Or are some of the things like ammonia going to get through RO/DI? See, I feel like an idiot here cause I assume that RO strips almost everything (99% pure water) and now it seems that last 1% it misses contains an awful lot of nasty.......

I'd love a lesson on what can get through RO and what can't......

Good info Matt! Thank you!
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you would need something else to remove ammonia.
your pre-filter would get rid of your large particles, with the 2nd pre-filter gathering smaller particulate. these are a portion of your TDS being removed.
then your carbon block would pull out chemicals, odors, taste (until it is full and cannot hold any more and starts leaching it back into the supply).
this is where the other stages of an RO would come into play, to remove whatever else you might need.
your membrane would help further remove more TDS before being sent to your holding tanks.
to remove excess minerals, you would need other filtration, such as iron filters, etc.
you can also get dechlorinators, but the biggest issue with these is, in cases like mine, your city uses chloramine. the dechlorinator would strip the chlorine and leave the ammonia, making it even worse for your fish, and you as a living organism, than if you'd left them bound together and treated with a conditioner in your tanks.
RO units will also not get rid of bacteria. that is why you would add on a UV. this is more necessary in a well set up than a city set up as wells don't get treated.

is it perfect? no. is it better? varied opinions. it can be better, or it could make it way worse for your fish.
 
I am not saying that could not be your public water, but I have worked for a water company for 12 years and every time their is a main brake we do not shut the water valves down. We keep the pressure in the mains going and fix the leak his keeps any dirt or foreign material from entering the main through the brake. Water flushing can cause water to discolor due to turbidity and stuff that settled in the pipe. This would cause a spike in heavy metals water pipes in the US are constructed from c900 plastic or ductile iron pipe (which is coated with mortar mix on the inside. Pipe installed in the 40's - 60's was asbestos which was cement and asbestos mix. Hope your rays get better and you solve what is happening
 
Most of us out in the sticks don't have chloramine......

I assumed these metal removing filter like the heavy metal axe are basically the same carbon blocks we use over here on our "drip systems", maybe like "the filter guys" filters that are supposed to break the chloramine bond? I didn't think there was ammonia issues with these filters? I just run cheapy carbon blocks without issue (no chloramine) so I have no idea how these other filters work. I'm just trying to understand this water stuff..... lol

I'd think attacking the water issues would be easier and less stressful then moving them......
 
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