[HELP] Tank NOT cycling

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
Update: I went to MY LFS today to get a new test kit, I did a water change today and yesterday, ammonia is down to less than 1
I had an expert help me, I told him everything
This is what he said:

As long as your have no nitrites, it is fine, you don't have to worry. It takes a long time for nitrates to come, since you had so many water changes that's why your tank has no nitrates, your tank is very safe right now because it has below 1 NH4 which is ammonium due to low pH, right now you do not need our sponge with beneficial bacteria, it is not nessesary atm.

You have a 125 gallon tank with 2 turtles, they create solid waste while the fish creates other wastes, that will result in high ammonia, but as long as you keep ammonia's not that high, oyu should not worry unless it is very high or nitrites start spiking very high.

Let the nitrates naturally come, you don't need nitrates instantly now, let it do it's work for nitrates, when your tank is strong enough it will form nitrates which will break down ammonia. As long as your tank has no nitrites and later on it will have nitrates, then it will be fine.

He also told me that as long as ammonia isn't that harmful, then i can stop water changes for a little while and wait for nitrates, once I see them i'll do a water change, unless ammonia is going too high.


So you guys, what do you think? he is right/wrong?
What should I really do?

um, is it ok for a tank to have 0 nitrite, 0 nitrates and less than 1 ammonia? it will form into nitrates soon, according to him. I hope it better be soon..
 
In my honest opinion.... From the start, if you wanted a quick cycle, you should have taken filter media from your already established 55 gallon. You would have the necessary bacteria already seeding the new filter media...
 
geronimo69;4326406; said:
In my honest opinion.... From the start, if you wanted a quick cycle, you should have taken filter media from your already established 55 gallon. You would have the necessary bacteria already seeding the new filter media...
Click to expand...


damn it no one told me that before I upgraded to 125 :(
 

As long as your have no nitrites, it is fine, you don't have to worry. It takes a long time for nitrates to come, since you had so many water changes that's why your tank has no nitrates, your tank is very safe right now because it has below 1 NH4 which is ammonium due to low pH, right now you do not need our sponge with beneficial bacteria, it is not nessesary atm.

You have a 125 gallon tank with 2 turtles, they create solid waste while the fish creates other wastes, that will result in high ammonia, but as long as you keep ammonia's not that high, oyu should not worry unless it is very high or nitrites start spiking very high.

Let the nitrates naturally come, you don't need nitrates instantly now, let it do it's work for nitrates, when your tank is strong enough it will form nitrates which will break down ammonia. As long as your tank has no nitrites and later on it will have nitrates, then it will be fine.

He also told me that as long as ammonia isn't that harmful, then i can stop water changes for a little while and wait for nitrates, once I see them i'll do a water change, unless ammonia is going too high.
Click to expand...
From what I know, he is partially right. I agree that it takes time to see nitrates. But nitrates don't break ammonia down, they are the third waste product in the nitrogen cycle.

He is right about waiting a little bit to allow the cycle to finish. Unfortunately, since you still show nothing but ammonia, there will still be quite the wait. He is thinking of the cycle pattern that results from seeding a tank (with sponge/filter muck). With seeding, it is true that nitrites either never show up or just barely test positive. This is because - as I've had it explained to me - the bacteria that convert nitrIte into nitrAte grow faster or survive better than the bacteria which convert ammonia into nitrIte. So by adding the active culture, you get to skip the nitrIte part for the most part.

However, you are starting from scratch which means you have neither species of bacteria going in any large number yet. So you should be seeing nitrIte within a week or two of maintaining ammonia at low enough levels for the bacteria to grow well.

Battle plan without culture: Test twice a day and change 50% of your water whenever ammonia peaks 2.0ppm. That way it goes down to 1.0ppm which, while still not ideal, will not kill your creatures in the few weeks it will take to get this done, but will still nourish your culture.

Never let your filter pads get touched with tap water, it will kill the bacteria. Never throw away a living filter pad, because that IS your live culture. Ignore the bs about constantly replacing the filter pad. That's just sales marketing. Always dechlorinate all new water going into the tank or use well water. Feed your animals a little less than half what you normally would. They might not understand the reason, but will suffer far less than they would with normal feeding and ammonia yo-yo's.
 
knifegill;4326999; said:
From what I know, he is partially right. I agree that it takes time to see nitrates. But nitrates don't break ammonia down, they are the third waste product in the nitrogen cycle.

He is right about waiting a little bit to allow the cycle to finish. Unfortunately, since you still show nothing but ammonia, there will still be quite the wait. He is thinking of the cycle pattern that results from seeding a tank (with sponge/filter muck). With seeding, it is true that nitrites either never show up or just barely test positive. This is because - as I've had it explained to me - the bacteria that convert nitrIte into nitrAte grow faster or survive better than the bacteria which convert ammonia into nitrIte. So by adding the active culture, you get to skip the nitrIte part for the most part.

However, you are starting from scratch which means you have neither species of bacteria going in any large number yet. So you should be seeing nitrIte within a week or two of maintaining ammonia at low enough levels for the bacteria to grow well.

Battle plan without culture: Test twice a day and change 50% of your water whenever ammonia peaks 2.0ppm. That way it goes down to 1.0ppm which, while still not ideal, will not kill your creatures in the few weeks it will take to get this done, but will still nourish your culture.

Never let your filter pads get touched with tap water, it will kill the bacteria. Never throw away a living filter pad, because that IS your live culture. Ignore the bs about constantly replacing the filter pad. That's just sales marketing. Always dechlorinate all new water going into the tank or use well water. Feed your animals a little less than half what you normally would. They might not understand the reason, but will suffer far less than they would with normal feeding and ammonia yo-yo's.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick reply,

So you're saying that high ammonia levels can not be handled by the bacteria that eats it, thus my cycle has been too long because ammonia was always spiking? So if ammonia is 1 or 2 that is the best for cycling to nitrites? is that what im doing wrong- no wonder!

So now ALL i have to do is keep the ammonia at 1 and wait?
1.0 PPM ammonia is what i have now, will it damage my tiger barbs/clownloach?

The guy who told me yesterday also said this:
If you didn't do water changes like you have right now to keep ammonias down, you should've seen nitrates by three weeks

Is that true?
So now you are telling me to keep ammonia at 1.0 ppm which is right, but if i have to maintain that by water changes won't it delay it more by taking away the bacteria that eats the ammonia as well?
I dnon't have any filter gunk, should I go get some from someone :S

So right now should I test my water everyday?

just for ammonia right
 
No, you don't need those products. Well, I've never tried them personally at least. But that's because I've never needed to! :D

If anything, find filter gunk. If you can't convince anyone to give you muck, you're stuck cycling the way you are already preparing to.

Yes, if your ammonia gets too high, the bacteria will fail to establish themselves. They need a consistent low concentration for best growth. If you didn't have creatures in there, I'd suggest letting it rise to three or even four ppm, but that's too dangerous for your animals. To be honest, even low levels of ammonia can scar the gills of fish and make breathing difficult. But try not to let that get to you except as motivation to keep the ammonia low right now.

As a guide, check ammonia at least twice a day to be sure it's not passing 2.0ppm. Also be checking for nitrItes until you are testing positive for them. Once that happens, you will see ammonia levels decreasing and nitrIte on the rise. NitrItes are less toxic than ammonia, but still dangerous. You will want to slightly decrease the water change frequency at this point because the bacterial culture is raring to explode and do its thing. The length of time it takes for nitrItes to stop appearing will vary by setup, but it won't be long. After a few days of having tested positive for nitrItes and changing a little less water, you will begin to see nitrAtes. You are now ready to do one final large water change to bring nitrAtes down, and this is the start of how you will plan your regular maintenance schedule. You will always have nitrAtes (typically) and need to do whatever water changes are needed to keep them down, usually around 10ppm is considered safe.
 
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