No, ideally you should keep your nitrates as low as possible. 10ppm is great , nitrites and ammonia readings should be 0. And as for the filter media. The carbon and ammonia removers arent necessary, all you need is the sponge and bio. Just keep doing the water changes and give your jar time and he/she should get better.
Help! There's something wrong with my Jar...?
- Thread starter morbidprince
- Start date
Nice job on answering all the questions completely, this makes it so much easier to help with problem. My comments in red
I think the power outage may have caused a mini cycle or ammonia spike. The only sign of this is the elevated level of nitrites. You could of also has a build up of nitrious gasses from the power being off, did you smell a rotten egg type odor from your tank?
Another possiblity could be a chemical reaction of some sort. Possibly the black water or maybe the water company has added something to the water. I would also look into your water softening system, some softeners add salts to soften the water. It would take more research as to what effects, if any this has on the fish.
For now I would just do your water changes and observe for any changes. Your jardini can go a couple weeks without eating so don't get too alarmed right now. Just offer the food and then remove if not eaten.
Good luck with this and keep us updated.
morbidprince;2344697; said:It's okay! Anything that will help me save my fish..
As for the Nitrates I didn't do it properly the first time, I re-done it it's at 10, hm...so ideally it should be at 20?
No 10 is great, 20 was just my guess.
The test kit is brand new we got it in June of this year, the brand is API Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, I can take some water to the local Big Al's we have near by.. I'll do that tomorrow.
Always a good idea to compare occassionally, I'm not as concerned now that the nitrate question has been answered.
I'm more relieved to hear the ph is not the thing hurting my jar...
Yes many people get too concerned with the pH level. Unless it is extremely high or low, the best thing to do is match the tanks pH with that of the tap water. This will keep the fluctuating to a minimum.
The last time I cleaned my filters prior to the problem was 1 month ago, I washed all the contents in the water we took out of the fish tank. We have city tap water here but our house has a water softener system installed. I always add water conditioner before adding new water to the tank, the water conditioner I use is AquaPlus.
Inside the filter there's the carbon stones, the bio stones, the sponge and ammonia remover stones.
Looks as if you are protecting your beneficial bacteria(BB) during cleanings, I was just eliminating this as a possibility. Myself I only rinse the "bio stones" in tank water as this is where the bacteria should colonize. I wash the sponge in hot tap water to remove as much debries as possible. Your sponges are populated with BB so you may want to just continue with your cleaning methods or gradually start washing the sponge with tap water. I do not believe this is part of your problem.
I have bought brand new filter medias to change if necessary.
The carbon should be changed regularly, it can become saturated and some say it will leach impurities back into the water. This could be part of the problem, how old is your carbon? With the regular water changes that you are doing the carbon is really not needed.
The only thing that happened was one of the parrot fish got sick and we didn't notice until it came out of hiding pale as a ghost, and not eating, after that we moved it to a hostipal tank, it's still in the process of recovery...it's got white stuff coming out of it's nostrils...?
Not sure what this illness could be, are you treating the fish with anything?
Also we added a few barteri and onion aquarium plants. That's about it...and the 2 hour black out 3 days before this...
The plants are not a problem, the blackout could be a contributing factor although your water parameters show that your bioflitration is still in good shape.
Oh and the last time I added blackwater was...this weekend when i did my weekly 25% water change.
Is the blackwater from a bottle that you have used previously or is this a new bottle. If it is a new bottle it could be bad or contaminated and be part of the problem.
Changing the water isn't doing much tho... I'm currently changing 10 - 15% daily until I nurse the jar and tank back to health. I also bought some frozen brine shrimp to feed the jar, but he's totally not interested...
You can change more water if you like, as long as the temp and pH are close it will not harm or stress the fish. I myself change 50% weekly in all my tanks and do 50% daily when treating sick fish
I think the power outage may have caused a mini cycle or ammonia spike. The only sign of this is the elevated level of nitrites. You could of also has a build up of nitrious gasses from the power being off, did you smell a rotten egg type odor from your tank?
Another possiblity could be a chemical reaction of some sort. Possibly the black water or maybe the water company has added something to the water. I would also look into your water softening system, some softeners add salts to soften the water. It would take more research as to what effects, if any this has on the fish.
For now I would just do your water changes and observe for any changes. Your jardini can go a couple weeks without eating so don't get too alarmed right now. Just offer the food and then remove if not eaten.
Good luck with this and keep us updated.
if you mean aquaclear that hangs on the side well then invest in canisters.
those are better. fluvals or a large canister is good.
water foamy is a general indication that there is something up with the water.
you test figures look ok, but i think there is osmething more
check under rocks that a fish did not get trapped and die and rot
this can happen.
also, change water 20% every day, use water ager and stress relivers.
and do buy that canister. overhang filters i think are crap.
use aeration stones - if the bubbles dont disappear as it touches the surface of the water, then do a water change.....bubbles should disappear quickly... or else means you have a high protein build up or nitrates or nitrites.
dim the lights to give him calm.
dont feed him.
those are better. fluvals or a large canister is good.
water foamy is a general indication that there is something up with the water.
you test figures look ok, but i think there is osmething more
check under rocks that a fish did not get trapped and die and rot
this can happen.
also, change water 20% every day, use water ager and stress relivers.
and do buy that canister. overhang filters i think are crap.
use aeration stones - if the bubbles dont disappear as it touches the surface of the water, then do a water change.....bubbles should disappear quickly... or else means you have a high protein build up or nitrates or nitrites.
dim the lights to give him calm.
dont feed him.
Bderick67;2346850; said:
Thank you so much for being so helpful and helping me eliminate alot of the possible causes. Hm...the carbon stones are 2 months old...so i think they're due to be replaced anyway? I was suggested to leave them out completly... I'm a little scared to do that... maybe i should give that a try on Sunday? I want to be able to monitor my jar incase an emergency comes up.
As for the black water and water softener system (yes mine does use salt) I've been using the same black water bottle since Feb.. and the exp date is in May 2010. For the water softener system it's alway been there? Unless like you said something the city did to the water... but the my bichir tank is perfect?
I changed a little more water today, it looked a little better but... still not very different yet. But I noticed... his eyes looks a little sunken... or maybe his face is slightly swollen... this is rather alarming as the last fish I observed went through these stages eventually died of dropsy. I've never succesfully treated dropsy
Also some of the scales on top of his back is a little white on the edges and it looks like it's covered by a small patch of whiteness, resembles beginning stages of body rot I have no been able to take a better shot of him yet as he's gotten a little more active and hates the camera.
I also noticd something else in his behavior... not sure if it's significant but he would be swimming along and suddenly he snaps his jaw followed by a short twitch of his head to one side. Looks like he's trying to spit out something that irritated him.
As for the parrot, yes the one in the hospital tank is being treated with melafix and pimafix as I have no clue what the problem is...theres surprising very little info on parrot fish diseases.
henward;2347039; said:
Thank you very much for your advice! Yea it's those ones that hang outside the tank.... I was told that they are better because I have sand substrate. So it's okay to get a cannister then? I will do that. Fluval right? Do you have a specific recommendation for model and size for a 180g?
I put in the airstone and it's definetly foaming up... I changed the water it's less foamy but still there's bubbles there. I think i changed almost 40% today...
light has been turned off as well... I'm worried sick for Grumpy here.. if only there's some kind magic fish pill
Seeing that there's hints of bodyrot I added melafix... should I also add pimafix incase there's some internal infection?? aaaahhhh
anything by dropsy!!! PLEEEASE don't let it be dropsy!!!!!!
sorry for constantly freaking out.......
anything by dropsy!!! PLEEEASE don't let it be dropsy!!!!!!
sorry for constantly freaking out.......
a 10"+ venustus chiclidmorbidprince;2344806; said:Yea tell me about it! Moody is my jar's middle name...! He has serious PMS every now and then... that one day he just ate the bichir...I have a feeling he was jealous of the bichir cause all the tank mates likes the bichir...
But from what you're telling me your jar is more moody than mineThat is awesome...and you must have had such patience! That's a lot of hunger strike.
LOL what did you add? My jar is scared of the bloody parrot who are...25% of his size...
Hm...I'll try to look for where to get some earth worms...they don't have it at my LFS.. the only thing I got was Brine shrimps... Ghost Shrimps? I'll check with my LFS! Hopefully he'll eat soon..
Thank you for all your advice!
WOW... that's impressive :O Jars can be truely unpredictible lol
btw... I am also seeing my jaw breathing rather heavily? I added an airstone... is that something to panic about?
btw... I am also seeing my jaw breathing rather heavily? I added an airstone... is that something to panic about?
water ager has sodium thiosulphate in it to cancel out the chlorine that water companies often put in water. sometimes peoples water has no chlorine in it. can you smell or taste chlorine? this is why i said to get a drum or tank to hold water in waiting for your next exchange. you remove the drama there by letting it sit in the sun or a few days on its own. sun kills chlorine as does aeration. if its in a dark room it will still come out but slower, keep the lid open though. air stones are good of course.
see chlorine kills fish gills but thats not the problem but we dont want it made worse is all.. the carbon pulls metals out for example but pulls out naturally occuring mineral salts too. if you change water then the metals wont build anyways.
there is ussually no need for carbon filters but they sell it to you cause they can.
you shouldnt be using ammonia or zeolite sponges..if you add salt to a tank with a zeolite/ammonia sponge the salt can dislodge the ammonia into the water.
they are short term fixing things and spending the money is not needed.
your pH is fine. the reaosn why someone mentioned nitates is becuase if the tank is well established it ussually has some nitrates. nitrates arent that toxic. its the lesser of the evils of ammonia and a product of your biological filter balls, a product of an ammonia conversion going on. please read about the ammonia cycle.
the first two forms of ammonia are your concern.
if you have plants and light you could well expect fairly low nitrates. plus water changes will lower nitrate. otherwise it will build if you have no plants or no changes. plants dont use much nitrite. see thats why people have said no food ok. they dont want you to add food/ammonia in case your filter aint working right.
your supposed to be fixing a problem and not adding to it.
ie maybe the bacteria isnt converting ammonia.. to nitrite and then nitrate. if your system crashed wait till it gets better before feeding. he wont die from being hungry in a hurry at all. he is getting sick from bad water.
fish like stable conditions, so maybe your using the black water to get it somehow more maybe ideal has changed conditions for the worse too. but your power out may be enough to wreck it by itself.
the thing is the bad water wouldve come good slowly but your fish is in there. thats a natural cycle of ammonia, the cloudy water but its dangerous to fish.
it is fine to use the good water from another tank unless the tank is suspected to have some disease on its fish.
see chlorine kills fish gills but thats not the problem but we dont want it made worse is all.. the carbon pulls metals out for example but pulls out naturally occuring mineral salts too. if you change water then the metals wont build anyways.
there is ussually no need for carbon filters but they sell it to you cause they can.
you shouldnt be using ammonia or zeolite sponges..if you add salt to a tank with a zeolite/ammonia sponge the salt can dislodge the ammonia into the water.
they are short term fixing things and spending the money is not needed.
your pH is fine. the reaosn why someone mentioned nitates is becuase if the tank is well established it ussually has some nitrates. nitrates arent that toxic. its the lesser of the evils of ammonia and a product of your biological filter balls, a product of an ammonia conversion going on. please read about the ammonia cycle.
the first two forms of ammonia are your concern.
if you have plants and light you could well expect fairly low nitrates. plus water changes will lower nitrate. otherwise it will build if you have no plants or no changes. plants dont use much nitrite. see thats why people have said no food ok. they dont want you to add food/ammonia in case your filter aint working right.
your supposed to be fixing a problem and not adding to it.
ie maybe the bacteria isnt converting ammonia.. to nitrite and then nitrate. if your system crashed wait till it gets better before feeding. he wont die from being hungry in a hurry at all. he is getting sick from bad water.
fish like stable conditions, so maybe your using the black water to get it somehow more maybe ideal has changed conditions for the worse too. but your power out may be enough to wreck it by itself.
the thing is the bad water wouldve come good slowly but your fish is in there. thats a natural cycle of ammonia, the cloudy water but its dangerous to fish.
it is fine to use the good water from another tank unless the tank is suspected to have some disease on its fish.
try to settle down. dont keep doing things that might make it worse. i dont like any chemicals. if i have any sick fish. i throw them in great water and they come good. its only if you get something progress too far that the chemicals could come out but i never use them as i have trust in being able to send a fish thats been in bad water and gotten sick into nice water and the fish coming good pretty quick. i fixed heaps of fish like this and no other way. maybe some salt treatments for disease pathogens.
im not sure i read this right but f you had a sick fish in the tank it is telling you the tank water wasnt much good. sopmetimes some species of fish show up sick first. like a test canary they used to use in the mines to show the mine was dangerous.
do we even know if these chemicals kill our good bacteria? we are supposed to be maintaining or encouraging? everything we do when a fish is sick should be taking the tank closer to just having clean warm water.
you know, people say jars need soft water. they like it yeah but they dont need it. a change from soft to hard aint good nor vice versa. changes should be slowover time.
my fish live in bore water. it is rather hard. naturally if it rains it dont ussually change that much. personally id rather use bore water than rain water or soft water. i like the pH buffering ability of water containing calcium or magnesium salts.
carbon or tap fittings like reverse osmosis units take that away.
the best thing you have is tap water ok. thats what your fish should hopefully be happy in right. from the tap, after your treatment with ager OR by letting it sit a while.
now youve had something go wrong with the tank that casued a grotty bloom of ammonia. when you change with tap water im wondering if your throwing the temperature off. your temp should be about 28 C. when you do something think first will it promote you getting back to good steady clean normal water or not.
ill tell ya a trick, you may like to try,stop feeding the other tank you have for a bit and steal some bioballs from the filter. not all of them. stick them in you jar tank filter.
really if you have changed that much water lately then your water should now be pretty clean but you want to slowly nurse a filter into working mode so you can feed normally again in about three weeks. you can feed a worm or something every few days but youll kill it with kindness if you keep throwing food items into a sick tank. keep an eye on the test results to get a gauge on what is happeneing.
your slowly gonna nurse your filter back into working mode.
your filter wont go into working mode if you keep changing all the water too much or ading chemicals etc. i dont think your disease is from a pathogen thats just nailing your fish but the fish immumity going down cause its living in too much pee and poop and then copping changes of its environment too much. do check for a dead fish.
you want a real small safe amount of ammonia. that will come from the jardini fish respiring. keep testing and keep the water within the nice range by using water exchange IF the values go up too high. believ it or not a low ammonia reading is ok. ammonia will be the feed the filter balls require to develop a film of good bacteria ok.
im not sure i read this right but f you had a sick fish in the tank it is telling you the tank water wasnt much good. sopmetimes some species of fish show up sick first. like a test canary they used to use in the mines to show the mine was dangerous.
do we even know if these chemicals kill our good bacteria? we are supposed to be maintaining or encouraging? everything we do when a fish is sick should be taking the tank closer to just having clean warm water.
you know, people say jars need soft water. they like it yeah but they dont need it. a change from soft to hard aint good nor vice versa. changes should be slowover time.
my fish live in bore water. it is rather hard. naturally if it rains it dont ussually change that much. personally id rather use bore water than rain water or soft water. i like the pH buffering ability of water containing calcium or magnesium salts.
carbon or tap fittings like reverse osmosis units take that away.
the best thing you have is tap water ok. thats what your fish should hopefully be happy in right. from the tap, after your treatment with ager OR by letting it sit a while.
now youve had something go wrong with the tank that casued a grotty bloom of ammonia. when you change with tap water im wondering if your throwing the temperature off. your temp should be about 28 C. when you do something think first will it promote you getting back to good steady clean normal water or not.
ill tell ya a trick, you may like to try,stop feeding the other tank you have for a bit and steal some bioballs from the filter. not all of them. stick them in you jar tank filter.
really if you have changed that much water lately then your water should now be pretty clean but you want to slowly nurse a filter into working mode so you can feed normally again in about three weeks. you can feed a worm or something every few days but youll kill it with kindness if you keep throwing food items into a sick tank. keep an eye on the test results to get a gauge on what is happeneing.
your slowly gonna nurse your filter back into working mode.
your filter wont go into working mode if you keep changing all the water too much or ading chemicals etc. i dont think your disease is from a pathogen thats just nailing your fish but the fish immumity going down cause its living in too much pee and poop and then copping changes of its environment too much. do check for a dead fish.
you want a real small safe amount of ammonia. that will come from the jardini fish respiring. keep testing and keep the water within the nice range by using water exchange IF the values go up too high. believ it or not a low ammonia reading is ok. ammonia will be the feed the filter balls require to develop a film of good bacteria ok.
