HITH? - Geophagus Tapajos Red Head

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I kept this species in hard water, pH 8.0, and approx. 25-26C - never had any HITH issues. I know others with similar results.

IME, OH Tapajos are not often prone to HITH, and I have seen them kept here in hard water with pH 8.0+ without issue. Large adult fish.

In his book on eartheaters, Weidner states; "A hardness up to 20 dGH and alkaline water (up to pH 8.0) will not prevent G. sp. Tapajos Orange Head from breeding successfully, and this species does not seem to be particularly susceptible to the skin lesions that commonly occur in Geophagus in harder water."

While I agree with Duane regarding tannins, humic acid, turpines, etc, found in many of these species natural waters, and it's benefit in keeping certain bacteria at bay, with this species, keeping your water clean and well oxygenated, is key. If you want to add peat, ketapang leaves, etc to your water that's all good and well, but keeping the water free of bacteria build up is most important. IMO the underlying problem has nothing to do with your pH, or your hardness. I just simply don't buy into that. HITH is typically caused from some form of stress, but your water conditions would not typically be what I would consider stressful to this species. Perhaps from aggression? Sexual tension among the group?

You might want to read the following.






Good luck.
 
Because of the hardness, alkalinity (carbonate buffers) and pH of your water already, I'm not so sure adding mineral salts is a good idea, those salts tend to increase osmotic pressure, which from your test results seems plenty high, already for Amazonian species, and may add to your problem
discus breeders often add minerals and salts because they don't use straight tap water, but instead use RO water which has little to no minerals. and need to replace some taken out by the RO unit.
In your case I believe tannins would be a much better addition, because of the antibacterial effect.
But I also believe increasing your water changes, and in so doing, reduce that 10ppm nitrate to between 2-5ppm will be a big step in the right direction.
 
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I kept this species in hard water, pH 8.0, and approx. 25-26C - never had any HITH issues. I know others with similar results.

IME, OH Tapajos are not often prone to HITH, and I have seen them kept here in hard water with pH 8.0+ without issue. Large adult fish.

In his book on eartheaters, Weidner states; "A hardness up to 20 dGH and alkaline water (up to pH 8.0) will not prevent G. sp. Tapajos Orange Head from breeding successfully, and this species does not seem to be particularly susceptible to the skin lesions that commonly occur in Geophagus in harder water."

While I agree with Duane regarding tannins, humic acid, turpines, etc, found in many of these species natural waters, and it's benefit in keeping certain bacteria at bay, with this species, keeping your water clean and well oxygenated, is key. If you want to add peat, ketapang leaves, etc to your water that's all good and well, but keeping the water free of bacteria build up is most important. IMO the underlying problem has nothing to do with your pH, or your hardness. I just simply don't buy into that. HITH is typically caused from some form of stress, but your water conditions would not typically be what I would consider stressful to this species. Perhaps from aggression? Sexual tension among the group?

You might want to read the following.






Good luck.

i read already both threads the last days thank you! :) especially the hith-revisited one was very useful. this forum is really great i must say. i will keep up my water changes and continue with the changes i've already made, add more tannins and hope for the best. and i didn't see any agression between the fish. once i saw two of them lip locking but that's about it. sexual tension the same. i don't really see anything stressful (in my eyes) to the fish. i was wondering if my two larger canister filters have an impact on minerals in the water and that this could be also a reason for my problems? -> mineral deficiency? anyway i'm adding them now to the water and will see how it goes...
 
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Because of the hardness, alkalinity (carbonate buffers) and pH of your water already, I'm not so sure adding mineral salts is a good idea, those salts tend to increase osmotic pressure, which from your test results seems plenty high, already for Amazonian species, and may add to your problem
discus breeders often add minerals and salts because they don't use straight tap water, but instead use RO water which has little to no minerals. and need to replace some taken out by the RO unit.
In your case I believe tannins would be a much better addition, because of the antibacterial effect.
But I also believe increasing your water changes, and in so doing, reduce that 10ppm nitrate to between 2-5ppm will be a big step in the right direction.

the salt i use is only until i get the water conditioner (which is not salt). it's a powder and according to the breeder it should not change water parameters... but sera mineral salt increases gh a little bit that's why i dosed half of a normal dosis. will stop once powder is here... yepp will add more catappa leaves this evening when i'm at home. funny thing is i feel like i'm keeping discus fish again with all the water changes :)
 
once i saw two of them lip locking but that's about it. sexual tension the same. i don't really see anything stressful (in my eyes) to the fish

Hard to say what takes place when a person isn't watching the fish 24/7. Lots of aggression issues can take place even after the lights go out. If it was a water issue, why only 1 fish affected, and not all 6? Impossible to say, but IME they are generally not a difficult species to keep, nor do they typically require any special water conditions. Are these wild fish by chance, or a domestic strain? I'm going to tag neutrino neutrino on this as well, as I know he has kept and bred them in water that I think was similar to mine.
 
Hard to say what takes place when a person isn't watching the fish 24/7. Lots of aggression issues can take place even after the lights go out. If it was a water issue, why only 1 fish affected, and not all 6? Impossible to say, but IME they are generally not a difficult species to keep, nor do they typically require any special water conditions. Are these wild fish by chance, or a domestic strain? I'm going to tag neutrino neutrino on this as well, as I know he has kept and bred them in water that I think was similar to mine.

you're right. i can only say that i didn't see any aggression in the tank (except once). what happens in the night or when i' m not there i don't know. mine are domestic fish, so they're not wild caught fish. and thanks for tagging neutrino! i've just added the catappa leaves extract i had in my fridge. Also prepared more for the next few days....
 
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hi guys. just to give you an update. i've been doing lot's of water changes the last week (every other day), adding minerals and trace elements to the water with each change, adding vitamins to the food once a day and i added lots of tannins to my tank (catappa leaves and alder cones) and raised temperature to 28.1c/82.5f. so my fish seems to get a little bit better. the holes are still there, but they didn't get more and also i have a feeling that they are a bit better. just wanted to add some update pictures. will continue this process. how long do you think it will take for the holes to heal? just so i know that i'm on the right track. thanks and have a great day.

fish1.jpg

fish2.jpg

fish3.jpg

fish4.jpg
 
thanks a lot for your advise! i have now started to change 30% water every other day

It will be more efficient to change larger volumes of water, less often if needed.
For example, to remove 20ppm nitrate it is going to take 10 back to back 30% water changes and only 2 back to back 70% water changes.
 
It will be more efficient to change larger volumes of water, less often if needed.
For example, to remove 20ppm nitrate it is going to take 10 back to back 30% water changes and only 2 back to back 70% water changes.

good point! but at the moment i can‘t as i don‘t have return pump. need to think about that. would also go faster. thanks
 
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