IME the best way to treat hole in the head is to apply the meds directly into the holes. Do that 2-3 times over 3 days along with your regular treatment and you should be fine. I recently did this with my big male Beani and it is gone. I've been treating it this way for years.
HITH + metro question (umbee related)
- Thread starter Snake_Eyes
- Start date
How does that help? I have never heard of anyone treating HITH like this. It has to stress the fish by doing this. Also HITH is a parasite in the instesting and the holes are a result of that parasite depriving the fish of vitamins.
:WTF: Are you serious? I have never heard that. I have heard of people treating bad wounds this way. But HITH is caused by a parasite and usually is brought on by poor diet, poor water, stress. Its like Herpes in humans. Most of us have the virus, it just takes something to set it off.
Well if it works for you, keep doing what works. I guess.
While the jury is still out on much of the information surrounding the causes of HITH (freshwater) & HLLE (marine) it is clear that there can be several triggers, and what one hobbyist may experience with their fish, may have nothing to do with what the next person experiences with their fish. A good place to get started with understanding this disease & its various triggers can be found on wikipedia. (go figure?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_and_lateral_line_erosion
Treating for hexamita via 3% epsom salt infused food is a very good idea when HITH is suspected. It's safe, cheap, and will remove any possibility of the fish carrying hexamita/spironuleus, as in some cases these internal protozoa that are very common in tropical fish, will explode in numbers in a fish that's under stress. If nothing else it will clean the fish out & remove the possibilty of hex/spiro later surfacing as a secondary infection. If you read the link above you'll see that hexamita & HITH are often associated with one another, which I assume is why the OP used the epsom salt infused food treatment.
While I understand that the OP doesn't use carbon, there is some more current info available on that as well.
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-found
As far as nutrition and/or vitamins being a cause, or a potential cure, I know of only 2 studies that have involved HLLE and diet, the one linked to above that was performed at the Toledo Zoo, and the one that author mentions by Tilghman et al from the University of Florida. I'm familiar with both studies as in both cases NLS was used as part of the control diet as it has been proven to NOT induce HLLE. In other words, if one wants to remove diet from the equation it's as simple as feeding NLS. That won't solve or remove the various other potential causes, but it will remove any concerns with regards to insufficient nutrient levels.
As someone previously suggested, this paricular fishes immune system may have already been under attack before it was purchased, and the move to your tank may have also caused an increase in stress causing the disease to advance at a more rapid rate.
Good luck with the metro treatment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_and_lateral_line_erosion
Treating for hexamita via 3% epsom salt infused food is a very good idea when HITH is suspected. It's safe, cheap, and will remove any possibility of the fish carrying hexamita/spironuleus, as in some cases these internal protozoa that are very common in tropical fish, will explode in numbers in a fish that's under stress. If nothing else it will clean the fish out & remove the possibilty of hex/spiro later surfacing as a secondary infection. If you read the link above you'll see that hexamita & HITH are often associated with one another, which I assume is why the OP used the epsom salt infused food treatment.
While I understand that the OP doesn't use carbon, there is some more current info available on that as well.
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-found
As far as nutrition and/or vitamins being a cause, or a potential cure, I know of only 2 studies that have involved HLLE and diet, the one linked to above that was performed at the Toledo Zoo, and the one that author mentions by Tilghman et al from the University of Florida. I'm familiar with both studies as in both cases NLS was used as part of the control diet as it has been proven to NOT induce HLLE. In other words, if one wants to remove diet from the equation it's as simple as feeding NLS. That won't solve or remove the various other potential causes, but it will remove any concerns with regards to insufficient nutrient levels.
As someone previously suggested, this paricular fishes immune system may have already been under attack before it was purchased, and the move to your tank may have also caused an increase in stress causing the disease to advance at a more rapid rate.
Good luck with the metro treatment.
Where are you guys getting your "parasite" information??? I don't know of a single scientific study that has confirmed any type of parasite as casuing HITH or HLLE.
OK maybe I shouldnt have used the word parasite. More like a virus. But there is nothing you said, that hasn't been said already. Stress, diet, water, all have been linked to the cause, and the cure. Now if the OP is using water from the hot water tank, that right there, in my HITH issue, was the cause. I had all of my water professionally tested. Tap water, outside hose bib, and water from the H2O tank. The water from the tank had readings off the chart for all kinds of metals. The copper and lead readings were ridiculous. Once I stopped with adding warm water, and went to strictly cold water. Problem was gone, and has not returned. So, in my case it was poor water. But changing to a good diet also helped speed up the recovery. I even went as far as preparing my own food, from the link I posted, and my HITH was gone very quickly.
As have other things, such as hexamita/spironucleus, although that too has never been proven. And there is a world of difference between a parasite such as hexamita, and a virus. You weren't the only person that used the term parasite, a previous poster went so far as using the term intestinal parasite. If that was the case once a parasite such as hexamita/spironucleus has become systemic, to the point that it has entered the bloodstream & travelled to organs, and the head region (where the pitting occurs) the chances of it eating anything, or even surviving, would pretty much be zero. I personally don't even like using the term hexamita, as there are several types, some only seen in cold water fish.
Below is an article by Neale Monks where he states that the relationship between the two diseases are well established, which I personally think is a bit of a stretch, at least in the case of warm water tropical species of fish.
http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-health/freshwater-conditions/hexamita.aspx
There may be hexamita like organisms that can cause HITH, but as far as I know this has never been proven, nor have any viruses as far as I know, which is why I asked about parasites. At this point most of the causes are based on nothing more than speculation.
In your case you feel that it had to do with your personal tap water quality, yet that doesn't mean that using water from a hot water tank is going to be the cause in the next persons tank. I've been using warm water for decades, and performing massive water changes, and never seen a case of HITH in any of the hundreds of fish that I have owned.
You mentioned diet, as it did in the link that you provided, yet one of the most important vitamins linked to HLLE by the U of FL wasn't even mentioned in that link. I also offered the OP a commercial diet that has been proven to NOT induce HLLE, which no one else ever has. Not home made, or commercial. Home made mixes that involve adding vitamins & minerals in a willy nilly fashion may or may not even come close to addressing the dietary part of the equation. I was offering up a simple solution to the dietary part of the equation, that has been proven on a scientific level by a third party accredited institution. (U of FL)
This isn't some kind of a pissing contest, I'm attempting to help the OP by offering up some of what I know to be the most current data that is available on this subject.
No pissing contest. We are all trying to help, but it sounds like you are trying do a bit more than that. But with everything that has been mentioned by all, I am sure that there is enough good quality info there that will help out the OP.
