how bad is this???
- Thread starter jagsandpits
- Start date
Doing a 100% change and removing the fish is a complete waste of time and stresses out the fish for no reason. You gotta make sure also that your not subjecting them to nitrate shock also. If your ppm is getting to say 20 before a change and then you do 100% change and drop that down to whatever comes out of the tap (say like 5ppm) can harm your fish even though it may seem good from the 15ppm drop in nitrate. Similar to throwing a new fish from the lfs with 30ppm of nitrates to your home aquarium at like 15ppm nitrate. Both are a form of nitrate poisoning at a 15ppm difference.
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Bro have you read this thread?? It's a whole bunch of people saying that doing a 100% water change whenever you need it is fine and dandy and won't harm your fish.
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According to the consensus you can change however much you want, and nitrate shock is not an issue
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No. If you read from the beginning, the initial posts were possible reasons for his distressed fish and a suggestion what to do to alleviate possible supersaturated gases in the water. I know, because I'm one of those who posted these points in the first couple of posts. Then one or two people came along and stated dogmatically that large (not 100%, just large) water changes were "bad". Then other posters said this is not necessarily true and they perform larger water changes and never have problems, some of them mentioned 70% water changes. Then the debate took off from there, including an example or two of some who do 100% water changes. The point of that was not to recommend 100% water changes, only to say it's possible to do them without harming your fish.
As I've said (what for the fourth time now?), it depends on the quality and consistency of your new water vs. your tank water. A lot of this is optional and personal preference and depends on your particular setup and your particular water. How much water you can change is not necessarily the same as how much water you need to change to maintain your fish. There are volumes of material available of those who set their systems up to require very little water change. There are volumes of material available on those who do massive water changes. There are far too many variables of setup, filtration, feeding, stocking, and local water quality to think one rule applies universally to all tanks or to extrapolate from one's personal experience a rule that applies to everyone, any knowledgeable aquarist should know this. For my part, I've never said what anyone else is doing is wrong or may not work for them. What I've objected to is someone telling other skilled and experienced aquarists that what they're doing is bad or wrong or doesn't work when it has worked for them for many years.
In a nutshell, people need to stop thinking their way is the only way and need to open their minds a little and stop criticizing anything different than what they've done. Do that and you might just learn something, at least enough to recognize there's more than one way of doing things in this hobby.
As far as 100% water changes. As I posted above, I've only done that a couple of times in many years and both times due to an emergency. I rely primarily on sensible feeding, sensible stocking, and setting up my tanks to be reasonably well balanced to maintain water quality. I don't consider it a requirement to to do massive or frequent water changes, though some people might have setups and feeding practices that may make it advisable in their case, but that's up to them. I don't personally see any need to do 100% water changes, except in special cases, and especially if it means catching and removing fish in order to do them. Nothing to be gained by stressing your fish that way over simply maintaining a healthy and balanced tank-- my opinion. But there's a big difference between doing 100% water changes, whether they can be done safely or not, and saying it's bad or wrong to do 50-60-70 or whatever % water changes.
But what I know is what works for me, that there's more than one way to do things and other people may do it differently. So, while I do try to help other people out, ultimately, they can do what they want and what I really care about is not what someone else thinks, but my own enjoyment and success with the hobby, the facts of which aren't affected by someone else's opinion.
As far as nitrate shock-- I've read contradictory articles on whether there is such a thing. IMO it's a dubious concept-- my opinion and I have no intention of arguing over it.
Example here:
BUT-- if your tank is reasonably well maintained in the first place your nitrates won't be so high as to shock your fish with a water change of whatever volume. Nitrate shock, if there is such a thing, should only take place if you were to do a large water change to a tank that has been neglected for so long that fish are supposedly acclimated to unhealthy conditions. Anyone doing any kind of decent maintenance on their tank in the first place wouldn't be seeing nitrate shock.
Example here:
BUT-- if your tank is reasonably well maintained in the first place your nitrates won't be so high as to shock your fish with a water change of whatever volume. Nitrate shock, if there is such a thing, should only take place if you were to do a large water change to a tank that has been neglected for so long that fish are supposedly acclimated to unhealthy conditions. Anyone doing any kind of decent maintenance on their tank in the first place wouldn't be seeing nitrate shock.
You said in the place I quoted as long as its dechlorinated do water changes however much you want when you want. All I'm saying
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And if this guy felt a need to do a 100% water change its possible its because his water quality was bad. All I'm saying is from what I've read it encourages that 100% water change as long as dechlorinated can do no harm at all. That's how it will look to newbies which is a dangerous thing on both sides
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Unless I missed something you quoted someone else and are confusing me with them.
Most people here did not say that. Most people agreed that if the tank parameters matched the new water parameters that you could change as much as you wanted. Obviously if your tank pH is 8 and your tap water comes out at pH 6.5, no amount of dechlorinator is going to prevent possible pH shock. This is why I mentioned aging water to stabilize the pH and match the temperatures before doing large water changes. If the pH of new water straight from the tap and the pH of aged water (ie, water that has been aerated and off-gassed for 24 hours) are the same, then yes, under most circumstances you can do a 100% water change all day long, given that you add dechlor to neutralize any chlorine or chloramines present. For that you need to have a general understanding of your own water, as it will vary for everyone based on several factors.
Some people in this thread are either being purposefully obtuse or they have very little understanding of water chemistry, which seems like the first thing you'd want to have a firm grasp on as a fishkeeper. It is not rocket science.
As for nitrate shock, if your tanks have extremely high nitrates then you either aren't doing enough water changes to begin with, you're overstocked, you have bad source water, or a combination of the three. My nitrates are rarely over 10 and never over 20ppm, as it should be IMO. I have never seen fish go into any kind of "shock" in my house after doing a 75 - 90% water change as long as the temps matched. In fact, that large of a water change usually triggers spawning.
