How do you take care of ammonia spikes?

[PeacockBass]

Here's the way I look at it. A river system is constantly flowing with new/different water. Even in a lake, fish aren't exposed to the same water all the time. Enough vegetation and bacteria in the system would help to eliminate a harmful buildup of ammonia (unless of course you include some of those river systems in Brazil that have been so poluted that there are actually islands of foam floating around... )
Anyway; I said 20% each day after an initial...say 50%...to just give a suggestion. You can continue w/ more 50% changes everyday. The point is that any sort of water change will eliminate more ammonia. I'm not positive, but some of the most superior systems have overflow/drip systems, allowing new water to constantly be introduced. This is why many people do daily water changes on fry tanks. There is a theory saying that fish will grow faster w/ constant water changes. I don't know of all the reasons for this and I'm trying not to go off subject again. I personnaly wouldn't want to do a few daily massive water changes, so as not to eliminate as much good bacteria. I also don't want a huge water bill.

As far as a single 90% change, that may be just the thing if ammonia has built up a lot. I would also worry about what the fish would be going through. Sure, certain fish, especially larger ones, would handle this type of change better than others. I keep predominantly smaller fish, so I am more inclined to do smaller changes about once a week. A 90% water change would normally be a massive alteration in water chemistry. A fish who has slowly become accustomed to high ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, or whatever else may not take a change like this very well. The addition of high chlorine levels would also come into play (considering the chemistry of the local tap).

Well, my hands are about to fall off right now, so let me know if I left anything out.
HTH
Chris C.

not bad!

although a few things I would like to correct-

Size of the fish will not effect the stress of a large water change.

If done correctly a 90-100% water change will not change water chemistry. When you are prepared to do a large water change be sure the water you are adding in is the same as the water you are taking out- PH, GH, Temp.

Fish do not grow accustome to NH3, NH4, NO2, NO3. These are toxic to fish, they do not grow "addicted" like a smoker would.

also, doing water changes will not effect the nitrifying bacteria.

Other then that, as far as i can tell, you give great information!!

 

[redtailfool]

dont be so sure on that note.

I agree. Ughhhh... Do you need water to keep fish ?

 

[slapper]

watch your PH with large water changes because of ammonia spikes

 

[farish]

bros, u could give zeolite rocks a try,,they absorb ammonia...once ammonia is down 2 0ppm...take them out dose wif comercial beneficial bacteria...dun change water 4 aweek 2 establish bacteria..hope this helps

 

[farish]

watch your PH with large water changes because of ammonia spikes

this bro has a point....

happend 2 me b4...drastic ph change, bacteria died..hence ammonia spike

 

[guppy]

I agree. Ughhhh... Do you need water to keep fish ?

no, only to keep them alve

 

[thesnakeguru]

I do agree with the water changes this is one of the most commanly used methods for controling "spikes". Also many of the chemicals out there do "lock" ammonia but the problem is once the chemical structure of these locks breaks down it will release back into the aquarium.
Here is a little easier why to help control ammonia problems, I am sure many of you have seen those white pebbles usually sold righ along side carbon...put some of those in a filter back and drop into your sump, or exhisting filter system, or right into the tank, leave sit for a couple weeks and then remove it, these "ammonia chips" cause the same lock as many additive chemicals only these you can easily remove from the tank......thus removing the ammonia from your tank as well.
***Cannot be used with saltwater tanks*** Regeneration of the "chips" is by soaking in salt water, so they will not work in a marine setup.
Hope this helps,
Brad Baysinger

 

[piranha45]

those white chips are expensive, and in the time you drive to the store and pick them up and stick them in and wait for the water to run over them, you could have done several water changes and saved yourself 10 bucks.

but hey, they're still an option if you feel around to it anyway

 

[Amano wanabe]

not bad!

although a few things I would like to correct-

Size of the fish will not effect the stress of a large water change.

If done correctly a 90-100% water change will not change water chemistry. When you are prepared to do a large water change be sure the water you are adding in is the same as the water you are taking out- PH, GH, Temp.

Fish do not grow accustome to NH3, NH4, NO2, NO3. These are toxic to fish, they do not grow "addicted" like a smoker would.

also, doing water changes will not effect the nitrifying bacteria.

Other then that, as far as i can tell, you give great information!!

Okay, I'm finding out that (I wish I would have thought of it earlier) smaller,faster fish usually will have a larger gill surface area to body mass ratio (more gill space compared to body mass) as compared to a larger, slower moving fish. This should allow fish with more gill surface area to body mass the ability to retrieve more oxygen, possibly allowing them to handle changes better. Since these fish occur more often in flowing water, this would make sense that they can handle constantly different water flowing around them.
However, it would make sense that larger fish would be able to handle changes a little better, at least from what I've observed in my experience. Their organs would be larger, obviously, as compared to smaller fish. This should mean that it would take longer and more water to affect them. I'm really not sure either way, so this is still kind of up in the air for me. I do know fry don't handle this nearly as well as their adult counterparts due to thier lack of developement. And there are also many species that are exceptions to everything I've said.
In a large water change, there is going to be more CO2 coming out of its compressed state, which can 'shock' a fish's system. I've been told that this is actually what the initial cloudiness is when you add new water. This can also be avoided by running an airstone through the new water before you add it. Many of us don't have time to do this, myself included, and run the water directly into the tank. So, water changes do affect fish in some way.

About the huge water change:
Sure, 'if' done correctly, this can be pulled off. However, for many, what is the likelyhood that pH of the tap will be relatively the same as the tanks water. If a tank has not received a water change in quite some time and is fed regularly, the water will gradually become acidic, which is due to dissolved ions multiplying severely. I don't know how water is in your area, but mine is a bit on the alkaline side. Sure it's easy to match the temperature, but pH can be a little tricky. This can be avoided by keeping up on the water changes and keeping the tank clean.

About the fish adaptation:
Fish do become accustomed to the water they are in, whether it's causing them to thrive, or slowly die. If you drastically alter the water they are in, this will throw off their osmotic balances. Their bodies are now forced to adapt, which causes stress, and leaves them open to illness. With small water changes, it's easy too slowly ween fish off of bad water. Well, its a lot easier than getting someone to stop smoking.

Now to the final one:
Doing a water change definitely can affect the amount of nitrifying bacteria in a tank. A monstrous water change can nearly wipe out a bacterial colony if you're using tap water. There is almost certainly going to be chlorine in tap. Bacteria have only a double cell membrane, and not a complex system like the fish. It's much easier to kill the bacteria than the fish. This is why it's not always the best idea to rinse bio-wheals or other colonizing mediums with tap water. This will kill off much if not all of the bacteria.

I credit a ton of this information to buddies of mine at the GCAS. Check out this thread on the site if you want: http://www.gcas.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3455

Now my hands really are falling off.
Chris C.

 

[piranha45]

Amano your entire case relies on alot of *silly* assumptions and speculation.

First off, this is MonsterFishKeepers.com. The welfare of dainty tetras and danios is not the focus of the discussions here. This place is about big fish.

Anyone with any sense at all uses dechlorination agents. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever to be an aquarist and not have dechlorination agents. Do these GC people somehow get by without $2 dechlorination agents that you can pick up at wal-mart?! good lord lol.

Temperature: Temperature changes of 3 degrees F or less are utterly irrelevant to fish in my experience. Heating systems alone can change water temp in an hour. And if the water you are adding in is drastically colder or hotter than your tank water, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Use a transitional container like a large bucket to add the water to the tank, and add hot water/cold water to the bucket so the temperature of the bucket's water is similar to the tank's. Repeat. You can do this process in the aquarium itself if you are careful.

If you're unsure about whether the pH and other parameters of the entering water are drastically different from your tank's water, then TEST THE WATER before you do a change! Personally my tapwater's pH has never varied from my tank's pH in the few times I've bothered to test it, perhaps that's due to the fact that I don't overstock my tanks like so many other people out there.

Osmotic balance? Where is the hard evidence for THAT?

And another thing often mentioned is "cloudy water after a big water change". Either the water changer didn't bother to thoroughly vacuum his substrate, or he didn't submerge his hose in the tank while filling it.

These assumptions of yours make it out as though humans are all deaf dumb and blind.

I've been making my huge water changes for 2 years now, the only thing I've have to watch out for is large temperature changes. If you want to make FREQUENT (several times a week) 20% water changes, go right ahead, but I'll stick with the convenience of making 1 huge change a week, and the satisfying knowledge that my tanks start out with 0-5 ppm nitrate levels every new weeks. If any of my fish ever spazz out from too big a water change, and its not because I didn't check the temp, I'll let you know /sarcasm.