how long can bacteria survive power outage

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
But aren’t you also burying the bacteria covered gravel that was on top sinking it into areas with heavily decreased flow rates thus removing it’s bacteria from it’s food source?

But… since the bacteria we count on has a very fast “doubling time” (reproduction rate), if we kill/remove 10% of our bacteria this will be replaced in a matter of just a couple hours…

correct. you are in essence redistributing them. the hungry bacteria from underneath (what little there are of them) will reproduce quickly..

its worth mentioning here a common myth that you see everywhere that is not true:

when you gravel vacuum your tank, you are NOT removing bacteria that are adhering to the gravel, despite contrary belief.

they are stuck to the gravel quite well (they are sticky) and simply vaccuming does not remove them.

you remove the dirt, but not the "bugs"
 
I am thoroughly convinced that bio media manufacturers have most hobbyists completely mislead as to the quantity of “surface area” in a system that is needed/used…

absolutely.

but don't forget that bacteria will literally grow on top of one another.

so you don't have a single layer of cells covering a given substrate.

you often have layers of cells (a "biofilm")
 
While I agree the flow pattern/rate of the filter will put the bacteria in contact with the ammonia/nitrite more efficiently than water simply moving around in the aquarium, This doesn’t make the bacteria in the filter any strong/different… and should not in any way suggest the bacteria in the aquarium itself is inefficient…

I agree. I was wrong to suggest oxygen was the limiting factor.

it probably isnt.

in reality, the dissolved oxygen at the input of a canister should theoretically be higher at the input and lower at the output.

this is because the nitrifying bacteria use up dissolved Oxygen as they break down wastes inside the filter. but the difference in an aquarium where you have surface agitation to replenish the dissolved oxgyen content (in equilibrium with the atmospheric air in the room) will be neglible. you would never notice it.
 
Thanks 12 V… :D

I can’t argue anything you’ve presented … Although previously it seemed we agreed on just about everything except the detail of the bacteria in the aquarium sustaining itself long term… Which it now seems we agree it will, pending details…

If we are discussing a situation where an aquarium uses a single canister filter filled primarily with bio media and has ample other water movement (powerheads, air stones, etc)… and the canister filter were turned off or removed…

We have agreed without opposition that there would be some level of ammonia/nitrite spike (degree based on stocking levels and many other details)… but in time the bacteria in the aquarium would increase to replace the bacteria lost when the canister was removed…

12 Volt Man;3308427; said:
correct. but the bacterial population cannot grow indefinately. as the population rises, food becomes limited (as you mentioned)) and byprodcuts of metabolism limit cell doubling. these byproucts vary by bacterial species, but they can be things like acids (lactic acid), carbon dioxide (via respiration) etc.

in other words, say you were to give the bacteria unlimited food and unlimited oxgyen. these byproducts of metabolism would still limit growth.

I agree completely… The bacterial population size will have some limiting factor… be it food, oxygen, space (surface area), pollutants, etc… This is true for every situation…

But in the situation noted above… prior to the canister filter being turned off the limiting factor was food supply and the bacterial population reach a level to maintain an ammonia/nitrite level of zero in the given environment… then the filter was turned off and the colony in the aquarium repopulated to the same overall quantity as before… Therefore the metabolic byproducts produced by the colony in the aquarium are no different than the metabolic byproducts produced by the system prior to turning off the canister filter…

Naturally ‘eventually’ these byproducts will build up to a crippling level, but this would take an extensive amount of time. As typically when an aquarium goes a long time without proper water changes metabolic byproducts within the system cause problems with fish stock, odor, water clarity, etc, etc long before they cripple the bacterial colonies.



I can fully accept that we, as hobbyists, have no scientific evidence to suggest any reference as to how many “square inches of bacteria is needed per volume of ammonia” or any other such reference… But based on my experience, I believe we, as hobbyists, on average believe we need far more than we truly do…

It will be a month or so before my bare 10 gal experiment yields any notable results, as it needs to cycle first, then I’ll need to build up bacterial levels at a moderate rate… but I’ll be sure to share details in my approach as well as my result… and probably even invite additional experimental theories…
 
anyone have a petri dish?
 
12 Volt Man;3308433; said:
correct. you are in essence redistributing them. the hungry bacteria from underneath (what little there are of them) will reproduce quickly..

its worth mentioning here a common myth that you see everywhere that is not true:

when you gravel vacuum your tank, you are NOT removing bacteria that are adhering to the gravel, despite contrary belief.

they are stuck to the gravel quite well (they are sticky) and simply vaccuming does not remove them.

you remove the dirt, but not the "bugs"
That is a relief ! I was told it removes some BB. I still python vacuum the hell out of my gravel twice a week though :D now I can do so with more confidence I suppose!
 
nc_nutcase;3311059; said:
Thanks 12 V… :D

I can’t argue anything you’ve presented … Although previously it seemed we agreed on just about everything except the detail of the bacteria in the aquarium sustaining itself long term… Which it now seems we agree it will, pending details…

If we are discussing a situation where an aquarium uses a single canister filter filled primarily with bio media and has ample other water movement (powerheads, air stones, etc)… and the canister filter were turned off or removed…

We have agreed without opposition that there would be some level of ammonia/nitrite spike (degree based on stocking levels and many other details)… but in time the bacteria in the aquarium would increase to replace the bacteria lost when the canister was removed…



I agree completely… The bacterial population size will have some limiting factor… be it food, oxygen, space (surface area), pollutants, etc… This is true for every situation…

But in the situation noted above… prior to the canister filter being turned off the limiting factor was food supply and the bacterial population reach a level to maintain an ammonia/nitrite level of zero in the given environment… then the filter was turned off and the colony in the aquarium repopulated to the same overall quantity as before… Therefore the metabolic byproducts produced by the colony in the aquarium are no different than the metabolic byproducts produced by the system prior to turning off the canister filter…

Naturally ‘eventually’ these byproducts will build up to a crippling level, but this would take an extensive amount of time. As typically when an aquarium goes a long time without proper water changes metabolic byproducts within the system cause problems with fish stock, odor, water clarity, etc, etc long before they cripple the bacterial colonies.



I can fully accept that we, as hobbyists, have no scientific evidence to suggest any reference as to how many “square inches of bacteria is needed per volume of ammonia” or any other such reference… But based on my experience, I believe we, as hobbyists, on average believe we need far more than we truly do…

It will be a month or so before my bare 10 gal experiment yields any notable results, as it needs to cycle first, then I’ll need to build up bacterial levels at a moderate rate… but I’ll be sure to share details in my approach as well as my result… and probably even invite additional experimental theories…
please do share!

Keep the convo going guys im learning a bit here!
 
Deaths Sting;3312532; said:
How long can bacteria survive without ammonia?
Theoretically it can turn in to a spore in a suspended state according to seachems stability. They really do not offer any more information other than it takes 10 or so years.... I might get ripped up for this post :nilly::popcorn::)
 
tcarswell;3312538; said:
Theoretically it can turn in to a spore in a suspended state according to seachems stability. They really do not offer any more information other than it takes 10 or so years.... I might get ripped up for this post :nilly::popcorn::)

cool, i would like to learn more about that. im using seachem stability on my new tank!
 
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