how to go from soft water to hard water?

[Herrwibi]

Don't forget to cycle the tank or add a mature filter before adding fish. ?

Don't worry the tank i'm thinking about tearing down and replacing with cichlids has a mature external filter already .

 

[RD.]

So the crushed oyster shells will increase pH and kH?

Yes.

The extent to which a complex calcium carbonate product, such as coral or oyster shells, will help you will depend on the KH consumption rate in your tank. Your pH value at 7.2-7.3 is already suitable for Malawi cichlids, all you really need is to increase your alkalinity to keep things stable, and keep the acidity being built up over time, from causing a sudden crash. This is where the crushed oyster shells will come in. They will help buffer your water. Just add a media bag full into your filter, and monitor as the shells degrade over time, and replace with new. At a farm store, a 50 pound bag of chicken grit costs approx. $10 US. That should last you a few years, or more. lol

 

[Herrwibi]

Yes.

The extent to which a complex calcium carbonate product, such as coral or oyster shells, will help you will depend on the KH consumption rate in your tank. Your pH value at 7.2-7.3 is already suitable for Malawi cichlids, all you really need is to increase your alkalinity to keep things stable, and keep the acidity being built up over time, from causing a sudden crash. This is where the crushed oyster shells will come in. They will help buffer your water. Just add a media bag full into your filter, and monitor as the shells degrade over time, and replace with new. At a farm store, a 50 pound bag of chicken grit costs approx. $10 US. That should last you a few years, or more. lol

I get what you mean the higher the kH ratio the more stable my pH stays? How long does the crushed coral/oyster shells take to leech into he water ? i would still need to increase the gH though wouldn't i?

 

[RD.]

You can tweak your water as much, or as little, as you feel is required. I would start by checking with your LFS, and/or local breeders that are on the same tap water parameters as you are. The shells will initially react fairly quickly to buffer your water, and raise your KH. After that it will simply keep it in check, no different than crushed coral, just typically a lot cheaper.

 

[Herrwibi]

You can tweak your water as much, or as little, as you feel is required. I would start by checking with your LFS, and/or local breeders that are on the same tap water parameters as you are. The shells will initially react fairly quickly to buffer your water, and raise your KH. After that it will simply keep it in check, no different than crushed coral, just typically a lot cheaper.

I've asked, they try and replicate how it is where they are from. They use seachem salts/malawi buffer to raise the pH and salts for the minerals.

 

[neutrino]

I understand what your saying, i know the relation between kH + pH with baking soda and epsom salt will raise the gH.

How do you keep your parameters steady with a water change? Do you pre mix the buckets so for example your sitting at 8 pH + 10gH in buckets and add each bucket or do you do your water change and add once everything is complete?

Also does baking soda and epsom salt stay steady and doesn't crash? I've tested my tap water 24 hours after leaving it sitting and it only changed by 0.1 pH.

Baking soda (a source alkalinity like shells or coral are) acts like a sponge to absorb acids (which is what "buffering" refers to). This means pH in my tanks stays very steady between water changes, which is to be expected at the chemistry I keep them and remains true even if I'm late with a water change for some reason. Tanks with little alkalinity would be more susceptible to pH dipping down.

I just add baking soda (and Epsom salt if applicable) directly to the tank. Does not bother the fish; in fact, occasionally the kapampa will eat a few Epsom salt crystals and it's no big deal. There was a time I fussed over keeping pH steady during a water change. Not any more after some science research and much experience-- it would take some digging to find the link but I've got a reference to research for fish being a lot more tolerant of pH changes than many think. I've found this true in practice-- and I used to be one of the guys warning that fish need steady pH, explaining the logarithmic pH scale and all the rest of it. Of course the comfort and tolerance range varies with species.

Here's the deal-- it's not a pH change itself (within sane limits that vary with different types) that can be hard on fish, but if there's ammonia present and you swing pH higher, like from the mid 6s or below to the mid or upper 7s or higher, it goes from a relatively non-toxic to a toxic form-- technically the ratio of the toxic to non toxic form changes with pH above and below a certain point, I'd have to look up just where it is the ratio begins to change, low 7s I believe. No ammonia in my tanks means this isn't an issue. My kapampa tank temporarily dipping a bit lower in the 7s during a water change doesn't bother the fish at all, same for my SA tanks dipping into the high 6s from the lower 7s, though If I'm doing something like a 70-90% water change, which I do at times, I'll add a bit of Epsom salt during the process. Used to test pH along the way doing this, but after doing it long enough you get a feel for it.

Not pushing one approach over another. That said, my fish typically live a long time and I practically never get sick fish, so none of this bothers them. But-- add higher pH water to a shipping bag of fish where the pH has dipped and ammonia present and by thus raising the pH you can quickly put them in some distress by changing ammonia to it's more toxic form.

 

[RD.]

Agreed, pH shock is a misnomer, the real issue is TDS (total dissolved solids) shock, which can indeed kill fish, from osmotic shock. And even with large shifts in TDS, soft to hard Is not nearly as problematic as hard to soft.

 

[Longmayitreign]

Just get carib sea african cichlid mix, it makes the water in your tank pretty close to the rift lakes.
It's really easy and you should find it at lfs.

 

[Herrwibi]

Just get carib sea african cichlid mix, it makes the water in your tank pretty close to the rift lakes.
It's really easy and you should find it at lfs.

How quick does it leech out of the substrate ? Would it raise the pH close to 7.8? Would it be worth getting limestone in the tank as well ?

Baking soda (a source alkalinity like shells or coral are) acts like a sponge to absorb acids (which is what "buffering" refers to). This means pH in my tanks stays very steady between water changes, which is to be expected at the chemistry I keep them and remains true even if I'm late with a water change for some reason. Tanks with little alkalinity would be more susceptible to pH dipping down.

I just add baking soda (and Epsom salt if applicable) directly to the tank. Does not bother the fish; in fact, occasionally the kapampa will eat a few Epsom salt crystals and it's no big deal. There was a time I fussed over keeping pH steady during a water change. Not any more after some science research and much experience-- it would take some digging to find the link but I've got a reference to research for fish being a lot more tolerant of pH changes than many think. I've found this true in practice-- and I used to be one of the guys warning that fish need steady pH, explaining the logarithmic pH scale and all the rest of it. Of course the comfort and tolerance range varies with species.

Here's the deal-- it's not a pH change itself (within sane limits that vary with different types) that can be hard on fish, but if there's ammonia present and you swing pH higher, like from the mid 6s or below to the mid or upper 7s or higher, it goes from a relatively non-toxic to a toxic form-- technically the ratio of the toxic to non toxic form changes with pH above and below a certain point, I'd have to look up just where it is the ratio begins to change, low 7s I believe. No ammonia in my tanks means this isn't an issue. My kapampa tank temporarily dipping a bit lower in the 7s during a water change doesn't bother the fish at all, same for my SA tanks dipping into the high 6s from the lower 7s, though If I'm doing something like a 70-90% water change, which I do at times, I'll add a bit of Epsom salt during the process. Used to test pH along the way doing this, but after doing it long enough you get a feel for it.

Not pushing one approach over another. That said, my fish typically live a long time and I practically never get sick fish, so none of this bothers them. But-- add higher pH water to a shipping bag of fish where the pH has dipped and ammonia present and by thus raising the pH you can quickly put them in some distress by changing ammonia to it's more toxic form.

I feel like being new to this I would love to go the cheaper option as in baking soda and Epson salt. I feel like I should get a substrate that's going to buffer my water like what is recommended . Wait a few days and see how my water reacts ?

Then maybe top it up with some limestone or if it's not high enough try baking soda and Epson salts ?

 

[tlindsey]

How quick does it leech out of the substrate ? Would it raise the pH close to 7.8? Would it be worth getting limestone in the tank as well ?



I feel like being new to this I would love to go the cheaper option as in baking soda and Epson salt. I feel like I should get a substrate that's going to buffer my water like what is recommended . Wait a few days and see how my water reacts ?

Then maybe top it up with some limestone or if it's not high enough try baking soda and Epson salts ?

That sounds like a excellent plan.