How to pair up a hybrid couple?

[izzy_here]

like such http://www.exploringnature.org/db/detail.php?dbID=22&detID=55

Exactly so.
Every fader carries the orginal unfaded genotype, however the fader gene overpowers the gene for normal coloration because-as we've already went over- it's a dominant gene. So you could use Fn for the fader parent, F for fader, n for normal, then use nn for the normal parent. I've never tried to extrapolate beyond a simple cross such as the op's citrinellus x carpintis...I'm not sure it would work once you start getting into more complicated hybrids involving several species.
Remember, the fader gene is genetically incompatible with many species, also remember most examples of punnets are usually using two species from the same genus. And here we're talking about two different genus, Herichthys & Amphilophus. This changes the rules a bit. You said something earlier in this thread about it (the fader gene) changing from a dom to a co-dom trait. In a sense thats sort of true. To put it more accurately, because two genus are involved, one of which is not affected by the fader gene, it begins to look and act like a co-dom gene, though technically it isn't. A perfect illustration of this is a true red texas, the texas blood of the fish is not affected by the fader gene, so the pearls express -in a co-dom manner- simultaneously with the fader phenotype..does that make sense?

 

[gamerpond1]

Exactly so.
Every fader carries the orginal unfaded genotype, however the fader gene overpowers the gene for normal coloration because-as we've already went over- it's a dominant gene. So you could use Fn for the fader parent, F for fader, n for normal, then use nn for the normal parent. I've never tried to extrapolate beyond a simple cross such as the op's citrinellus x carpintis...I'm not sure it would work once you start getting into more complicated hybrids involving several species.
Remember, the fader gene is genetically incompatible with many species, also remember most examples of punnets are usually using two species from the same genus. And here we're talking about two different genus, Herichthys & Amphilophus. This changes the rules a bit. You said something earlier in this thread about it (the fader gene) changing from a dom to a co-dom trait. In a sense thats sort of true. To put it more accurately, because two genus are involved, one of which is not affected by the fader gene, it begins to look and act like a co-dom gene, though technically it isn't. A perfect illustration of this is a true red texas, the texas blood of the fish is not affected by the fader gene, so the pearls express -in a co-dom manner- simultaneously with the fader phenotype..does that make sense?

now here's something a little more complicated which i would consider to be closer to what we're talking http://www.ballpython.com/index.php?page=genetically2 even though they are using ball python's albino grades

 

[izzy_here]

now here's something a little more complicated which i would consider to be closer to what we're talking http://www.ballpython.com/index.php?page=genetically2 even though they are using ball python's albino grades

I'm not trying to be rude, but did you read my last post?? How in the world does that link have anything to do with what we're talking about?? It's about different combos of recessive genes, which is not what we're talking about at all.
I seriously have to ask this, are you trolling me?

 

[gamerpond1]

I'm not trying to be rude, but did you read my last post?? How in the world does that link have anything to do with what we're talking about?? It's about different combos of recessive genes, which is not what we're talking about at all.
I seriously have to ask this, are you trolling me?

i figured that the ball python link would have a closer example of a hybrid punnett square since a faded red devil can be heterozygous

 

[izzy_here]

i figured that the ball python link would have a closer example of a hybrid punnett square since a faded red devil can be heterozygous

That is correct, a faded red devil can be heterozygous, that just means they only need one copy of the fader gene to express the phenotype. Although a pure red devil is more often homozygous dominant, meaning they have a copy of the dominant gene from each parent. For our purposes here you'd still write it as Fn on a punnet sqare, as they also carry a copy of the normal/unfaded gene from each parent as well. In the link you posted, when they refer to a heterozygous albino, they're referring to an animal that has an albino genotype, but not an albino phenotype. Meaning they only have one copy of a recessive gene, so they carry that gene but do not express it visually. The albino phenotype will only express visually in it's homozygous state, meaning you need two copies, one from each parent to get an albino phenotype. Again this has absolutely nothing to do with the genetic inheritance of a dominant trait.

In hybrids containing the fader gene you can in a sense view it as a homozygous trait, because you have to pair up enough Amphilophus genes -that also carry the heterozygous trait of fader- to get a fader. So two unfaded red texas can produce faded offspring if they carry enough Amp blood, I recently saw a thread here on MFK illustrating this perfectly.

 

[marto181]

I still can't proove it. They don't want to do anything with each other... Just flaring and liplocks. Anyone to have any points on this ?

 

[izzy_here]

Many cichlids breed immediately after it rains in the wild. Sometimes using slightly cooler water for the water change can stimulate breeding, as it simulates the temp change that occurs after rain fall. Also try doing a small daily water exchange, perhaps 10%. You can also try live foods, or maybe try some shrimp or fish from the market cut into small pieces.

 

[marto181]

Ok thank you Today will make bigger water change with slightly cooler water and after that will see what happens. I give them earth worms, brine shrimps, blood worms and tetra discus granullat

 

[marto181]

Still nothing happens...
I start to think that the midas in not a Female at all.

 

[marto181]

Midas x carpintis did not work well and I have to change the male...
Here is a pictures of my new hybrid pairs
Midas x Jaguar - works well they hang out together and dig pits all the time. Wait for midas to mature enough to have eggs.

And I also buy a blood parrot (hope to be a female...) for my carpinitis male. He still beat the parrot a lil bit but they are together from a week now... Here they are: