I don't care if you do this or not

[toxicfish]

Well from this highly intelligent reply I gather that you would have trouble filling out a simple form? Because I cannot understand why an intelligent fish enthusiast would object to having restrictions on irresponsible people buying the fish we love.

Oh but of course:



You are one of those irresponsible people, silly me!!

yes i have troubles filling out simple forms, you got me there . lol. I guess 2 4"pbass in my 100g is irresponsable. and i cant wait till they get bigger so i can cut thier heads off and eat em. AN OSCAR IN A 1000G TANK IS IRRESPONSIBLE AND CRUEL COMPAIRED TO THE WILD. SO I GUESS THAT MAKES EVERBODY IN THE FISH WORLD HORRIBLE PPL

 

[toxicfish]

I'm def. with you on this one hardboiled. It's not very difficult to fill out a simple form that shows that you can responsibly care for a very large fish. I mean, come on guy, what are you thinking toxicfish

WHAT IS WITH YOU PPL HUH?

 

[toxicfish]

F*** PERMITS AND RESTRICTIONS THATS IS MY OPPINION SO DEAL WITH IT CRYBABYS

AND F*** THE DNR FOR MAKING US BUY FISHING LIC

 

[toxicfish]

Someone PM'ed me about this.. I was going to share my thoughts..

If your talking about Arowanas, I would say only %2 of the people who keep them, have a proper home for them..

Each year, there are over 10 million Arowanas farmed from the wild and shipped all over the world, I would say about %2 of those actually live to adulthood..

They 'outlawed' the reproduction of multiple children in China because of population explosion and lack of proper care towards these children. Pitbulls are illegal in multiple states due to fighting and abuse.. Education is a hard thing for un-educated people to understand..

You can educate people all you wan't, people will still be ignorant and kill off these fish because their 'manly fortitude' wants to display these 'monster' fish improperly.. Not really Pride as much as bragging rights, IMO..

So what your trying to say is since a small handful of these Arowanas actually are kept properly, that we should alow the other hundreds of millions to die a miserable death?


and Yes, most fish stores are about the money.. A good fish store will seldom carry these monster fish, and only carry them upon special orders. A good fish store would only sell you a fish that you could properly house..PetSmart believes silver arowanas only get 24" and they can live in 55g tanks, go ask for a care sheet on them. THIS is why they should be outlawed. Corporate pet stores will slowly take over the pet industry, but they could care less about educating people.. Especially if Education means less profits.

So you must annex the problem at the source, ie: Import Quotas into the united states on various oversized species. This would give them a 'rarity' value, and the people who can actually AFFORD to buy them, and AFFORD to house them, will take the time and effort to properly do so, and there wil be much more of a 'pride' factor involved.. Such as the pride when an asian person purchases and displays a $25,000 Arowana.. They aren't going to stuff that thing in a 55g tank.

Stingrays are now being released upon Quotas in Brazil. People who house stingrays, often do it properly, but now that they are being restricted the prices will be going up, and this increases their rarity value. People who purchase very large, expensive fish, will likely take the time to educate themselves and have a proper home for it.. Now that Pearl Rays are illegal to export, I would imagine anyone purchasing a Pearl Ray will do EVERYTHING they can do make sure its in a proper environment. On the flip side, you can purchase a juvenile arowana for under $10 and keep it in your 55g for quite a while. This means; no rarity value, or in other words, no one cares.. It becomes a 'disposable' fish. When it dies, you can just come back and get another one, because they had 50 of them in the tank.

I agree with Channas being Illegal as well, maybe not the dwarfs, but these guys get huge. They are often colorful and playful when juveniles, then grow into a MONSTER.. Then what happens? The uneducated 'dispose' of this fish into the wild, after-all they only paid $10 for it a few years ago when it was barely 3 inches. Chain reaction effect; Environment destroyed, thanks Channa! Not really like I am a big fan of N. American biotopes and their inhabitants, but alot of people are..

Clown knives, disposable.. Pangasius, disposable.. Pacu, disposable..Majority of XL catifsh, disposable.. Any fish that can be purchased under $20 when it is a juvie, but grows to over 3 feet, should be 'restricted' in some way.. For those who REALLY want to house these fish, and who REALLY can provide a proper home for them, should still have access..Quotas= Increase Rarity= Increase Value= Decrease 'Disposable' effect. It also helps conserve in the wild. Fish that are being tank-bred for money (RTCs), should be halted, and those people should start breeding something else.. Of course money, power, supply and demand will always overule sensability and education. However, if they passed a law restricting the number of tank-bred RTC's released into the public, it could increase the rarity value of the fish.

Mbu Puffers.. People educate themselves about this fish before they purchase it.. It has a 'rarity' value attached to it, Even the pet stores know it. It also demand a much higher price then most disposable fish.. Not any schmoe will just buy this puffer at a few inches for $100, especially after realizing it grows to 30"+! Most people who purchase Mbu Puffers have a proper home for it (300g+), or they have a plan to 'trade-in' at the LFS. The thing about trading in this monster, compared to other disposables, is that it will actually RE-SALE and hold a value. An XL Pacu, Clown Knife, or other big fish will not and likely die or be euthinized by the pet store.

BUT.. no matter how much we rant, or how much we try to educate people.. The government is still ignorant beyond belief in subjects that have little concern to them. It is not worth the time and money to government officials to even 'consider' such thoughts...Soooo The best thing we can do is educate people ourselves, such as open public internet message boards, specializing in the proper care of 'Monster Fish' .. Hooray, MFK, the savior! Well not quite, but it's a start!


Now I am sure alot of people will have little spin-off remarks about the stuff I used as example, and they will try to use other examples such as 'people put live plants in the wild and it destroys habitats, should we outlaw them too?'.. Keep in mind, there are alot of things outlawed, such as Anacharis in WA state.. But like I said before, the un-educated will always have a hard time understanding education.

Ok.. I have gone on long enough.

I am not saying I am ANTI-MFK, I am just saying that if these fish weren't so cheap and readily available, then we wouldn't have this problem of them flooding the market, and dying in the millions due to the ignorant and uneducated.

THIS I AGREE WITH

 

[I3u11he4d]

Yeah I was plannig on getting like 5 oscars for my 10 gallon,what kind of fish would go well with these? man,I hear ya rweedon,I have a dumbass friend(hard to admit)that asked me this very question just a day ago,I tore him a new one and told him not to bother even keepin fish if he wasnt going to actually research it abit.Speaking of overstocking,theres an articale in this months TFM,some dude wrote in about his 55 gal. that has something like 100 fish in it! and he wonders wy its cloudy.Ill have to find it and put it up,I about crapped when I read it..

 

[I3u11he4d]

F*** PERMITS AND RESTRICTIONS THATS IS MY OPPINION SO DEAL WITH IT CRYBABYS

AND F*** THE DNR FOR MAKING US BUY FISHING LIC

WOW,Your a smart one,so by your rules I should be able to keep an elephant in my 50'x50' backyard in the middle of the city with no problem right.Thats sweet,while I'm at it I'll get a couple of black rhino what for them to fill out and invite all of you over for a b-bque.Genius

 

[hardb0iled]

THIS I AGREE WITH

So, your happy to jack the prices right up so that not many people can afford them but you complain about having to buy a fishing license?

People with excessive spending money are some of the most irresponsible people I know!! LOL! You dont see poor people buying exotic animals just for the hell of it!? But there's a lot of stories about how some rich guy buys something stupid like a tiger to house in his back yard!?

I agree with the basis of that argument, but simply making things expensive doesnt do enough to deter irresponsible owners, it just elimnates the 'less well off' people from the picture.

I agree the fish need to be less readily available, hence the permit system.

Now if toxicfish had something intelligent to add to this thread instead of just telling everyone to "GET ****ED" and being all anti establishment for reasons known only to himself, we may have something to debate?

 

[toxicfish]

WOW,Your a smart one,so by your rules I should be able to keep an elephant in my 50'x50' backyard in the middle of the city with no problem right.Thats sweet,while I'm at it I'll get a couple of black rhino what for them to fill out and invite all of you over for a b-bque.Genius

hey what ever floats your boat brother

 

[toxicfish]

So, your happy to jack the prices right up so that not many people can afford them but you complain about having to buy a fishing license?

People with excessive spending money are some of the most irresponsible people I know!! LOL! You dont see poor people buying exotic animals just for the hell of it!? But there's a lot of stories about how some rich guy buys something stupid like a tiger to house in his back yard!?

I agree with the basis of that argument, but simply making things expensive doesnt do enough to deter irresponsible owners, it just elimnates the 'less well off' people from the picture.

I agree the fish need to be less readily available, hence the permit system.

Now if toxicfish had something intelligent to add to this thread instead of just telling everyone to "GET ****ED" and being all anti establishment for reasons known only to himself, we may have something to debate?

I never told any one to GET ****ED

I was stating my mind ... so you can now go and GET ****ED. LOL

 

[I3u11he4d]

Is this the United States? Home of the free? Or Communist China? More laws and Permits is the last thing we need in the USA. No fish in a tank has enough swimming room. Mollies go from brackish to fresh water during different times of the year. So do you make this enviroment in a tank, No. Any large cichlid that travels whole rivers in the wild could never be kept in a tank if you want to treat the fish right. Even the really big tanks 1000g plus would not do justice to most fish that are kept in the hobby. I personnel do not keep fish that will out grow my tanks In fact most of my tanks look understocked compared to most tanks I see on this site and others, but I would never think of giving the goverment more control over the type of fish I can have and can keep. You asking for trouble anytime you ask for more laws restricting peoples freedoms. Educate your friends and those that get into the forums about how fish should be housed do not let new laws restrict personnel freedoms! Sorry for ranting and spelling.

Most laws tat are made to restrict something are in place only because dumb people abused the freedom that tey had and and tried to push thier luck.peopl are given the chance to regulate themselves and then when they prove that thier not smart enough to do that then the gov. steps in and does it for us.It will happen with the fish trade too,hell it already has in some respects.i.e. snakeheads