Illegal importation, permits, no permits, tank sizes, name calling, finger pointing etc. etc. Regardless of what anyones view is here, let's please not lose sight of the most important thing at hand. Wasting natural resources with impunity, in this case aquatic animals, is BAD!!!!!
I don't care if you do this or not
- Thread starter rweedon
- Start date
Try to look at the big picture. The world's appetite for fish is unimagineable. And that's just the Human appetite (along with fish, jellyfish, birds, sea-mammals, tsunamis, volcanos, red tides, etc.)!
Fishkeepers kill relatively few fish out of ignorance, complacency or accidentally. Federal and State governments are already regulating what Types of guns -er, I mean fish- citizens can keep and if you allow them further I gua ran tee you that they will eventually limit the SIZE of the tanks we can keep. Water conservation will be a big part of it. You do realize the size of the the tanks on our toilets is already Federally Mandated? When you flush a fish it doesn't go all the way Through! They're Ineficient! Their is a black market on the older, larger capacity toilets now. Politicians everywher are trying to control the lenght of timr/volume fo water people waste before their showers are warm enough. Every showerhead has to be modified by taking the regulator out. I do, anyway; I want a SHOWER, not a spit bath.
When lobbyists realize people are holding thousands of gallons of fishwater on their properties and regularly discarding 25%, 50%, even 90% of it and it contains fish waste, medicines that might harm the 'endangered western spotted nematode' and the rest of the food chain progressing therefrom they'll buy politicians to pass laws (i.e. eligbility), create special taxes (like they did on cigarettes, alcohol, other luxery taxes) to pay for the new, ever- expanding beauracracy to regulate it, create further numerous NEW building codes (in our area you cannot build a new house unless it has the new EPA approved wood burning stoves as alternative heat source with notoriously expensive and short-lived catalyctic converters). Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...
They'll probably require that 'chips' be installed in our fish so the SPCA can monitor the thiamine levels in them to determine whether or not their care is complete. Violations will bring fines, imprisonment or both, and probationary monitoring IF it is judged you be allowed to have a fish again (they are already doing that with dogs etc.) Some localities are changing the title "Pet Owner" to "Caregiver" granting human rights to the pet if. If you take care of your elderly parent and neglect your fish you will be charged just as if it were the reverse.
And all this just because some idiot kept a Pacu in a too- small environment before realizing too late and the fish is killed. Well, I'M THAT IDIOT. Guilty as charged and I'll never make that mistake again. The death of one fish among trillions taught me a lesson in life I'll never forget and in fact passed on to others at Walmart once when I talked a family out of buying the red bellid Pacu and convinced the clerk that the 10" advertised was completely wrong, and she promised to pass it on cause she's paid by the hour not by the fish (I was only there for gravel anyway: I would never buy a fish there. All of us can take a little responsibilty and leave the government out of it. All of us should do a small part that adds up to a big part in reducing governments size and scope, thus improving the human condition individual by individual.
This whole rant is probably rendered moot by the proliferation of swimming pools anyway.
Fishkeepers kill relatively few fish out of ignorance, complacency or accidentally. Federal and State governments are already regulating what Types of guns -er, I mean fish- citizens can keep and if you allow them further I gua ran tee you that they will eventually limit the SIZE of the tanks we can keep. Water conservation will be a big part of it. You do realize the size of the the tanks on our toilets is already Federally Mandated? When you flush a fish it doesn't go all the way Through! They're Ineficient! Their is a black market on the older, larger capacity toilets now. Politicians everywher are trying to control the lenght of timr/volume fo water people waste before their showers are warm enough. Every showerhead has to be modified by taking the regulator out. I do, anyway; I want a SHOWER, not a spit bath.
When lobbyists realize people are holding thousands of gallons of fishwater on their properties and regularly discarding 25%, 50%, even 90% of it and it contains fish waste, medicines that might harm the 'endangered western spotted nematode' and the rest of the food chain progressing therefrom they'll buy politicians to pass laws (i.e. eligbility), create special taxes (like they did on cigarettes, alcohol, other luxery taxes) to pay for the new, ever- expanding beauracracy to regulate it, create further numerous NEW building codes (in our area you cannot build a new house unless it has the new EPA approved wood burning stoves as alternative heat source with notoriously expensive and short-lived catalyctic converters). Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...
They'll probably require that 'chips' be installed in our fish so the SPCA can monitor the thiamine levels in them to determine whether or not their care is complete. Violations will bring fines, imprisonment or both, and probationary monitoring IF it is judged you be allowed to have a fish again (they are already doing that with dogs etc.) Some localities are changing the title "Pet Owner" to "Caregiver" granting human rights to the pet if. If you take care of your elderly parent and neglect your fish you will be charged just as if it were the reverse.
And all this just because some idiot kept a Pacu in a too- small environment before realizing too late and the fish is killed. Well, I'M THAT IDIOT. Guilty as charged and I'll never make that mistake again. The death of one fish among trillions taught me a lesson in life I'll never forget and in fact passed on to others at Walmart once when I talked a family out of buying the red bellid Pacu and convinced the clerk that the 10" advertised was completely wrong, and she promised to pass it on cause she's paid by the hour not by the fish (I was only there for gravel anyway: I would never buy a fish there. All of us can take a little responsibilty and leave the government out of it. All of us should do a small part that adds up to a big part in reducing governments size and scope, thus improving the human condition individual by individual.
This whole rant is probably rendered moot by the proliferation of swimming pools anyway.
That was extremely well said. I will never buy a fish that gets to big for its tank, I either have the tank, know the tank is going to be on its way or have a tank waiting in someone elses house that can house the fish as needed for full growth.
I'm not sure how it is in the states, but here in Australia, to own certain reptiles, turtles, snakes etc. you have to have license/permit. It appears to work well. To get the permit you have to read up on information about the animals for which the license permits you to keep, then sit a test I dont know where everyone got their paranoia of permits from in the states?! I suppose with a government like yours its easy not to trust them?! I dont see people complaining about the need to have a license to drive a car? Itd the same thing, it ensures the person has the required knowledge and experience to perform the job.
Here is some info regarding getting a permit for reptiles in Aust:
http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/npws.nsf/Content/Getting+a+reptile+keepers+licence
I am still to hear a good argument as to why this would not work with certain fish species? Its not expensive, its not really a hassle unless you arent that serious about keeping the fish in the first place? It doesnt make the fish illegal? All it does is ensure the person buying the fish is serious and knows how to care for it.
From the sounds of it, some of you seem to think that a permit means you have to have a certain sized fish tank or a certain number of fish or a certain size of fish - it doesnt work that way, all it does is ensure the person buying the fish knows what he's doing, and then it relies on that person to do the right thing from what they know. This would not be for all fish of course, just the ones that require more knowledge or resources to care for properly.
As for your toilets, I cant believe how ignorant some of you guys are!? Here in Australia we have MAJOR water supply problems and our major cities have been under enforced water restrictions for the last few years!? We can actually get fined for washing our cars! Those toilets are there for a reason, and thats to prevent water wastage because the population is rapidly outgrowing our reserves of fresh drinking water! I bet once you flush away all that water and end up in the same boat as us, you will be blaming the government for not doing enough to restrict the wastage in the first place!?
Here is some info regarding getting a permit for reptiles in Aust:
http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/npws.nsf/Content/Getting+a+reptile+keepers+licence
I am still to hear a good argument as to why this would not work with certain fish species? Its not expensive, its not really a hassle unless you arent that serious about keeping the fish in the first place? It doesnt make the fish illegal? All it does is ensure the person buying the fish is serious and knows how to care for it.
From the sounds of it, some of you seem to think that a permit means you have to have a certain sized fish tank or a certain number of fish or a certain size of fish - it doesnt work that way, all it does is ensure the person buying the fish knows what he's doing, and then it relies on that person to do the right thing from what they know. This would not be for all fish of course, just the ones that require more knowledge or resources to care for properly.
As for your toilets, I cant believe how ignorant some of you guys are!? Here in Australia we have MAJOR water supply problems and our major cities have been under enforced water restrictions for the last few years!? We can actually get fined for washing our cars! Those toilets are there for a reason, and thats to prevent water wastage because the population is rapidly outgrowing our reserves of fresh drinking water! I bet once you flush away all that water and end up in the same boat as us, you will be blaming the government for not doing enough to restrict the wastage in the first place!?
I won't get into the water wastage issue except to say that they still sell misting yard cooling systems in cities that rely on fossil water which does not strike me as very bright.
Two problems here with permits are that
1) they will not base therules on basic animal husbandry when they are elected officials setting the rules, and
2) we have a history here of funds seeking beuracracies becoming very invasive.
I personally think that if they are going to require permits and liscenses for raising non-endangered species then they should start with children.
Two problems here with permits are that
1) they will not base therules on basic animal husbandry when they are elected officials setting the rules, and
2) we have a history here of funds seeking beuracracies becoming very invasive.
I personally think that if they are going to require permits and liscenses for raising non-endangered species then they should start with children.
DeLgAdO said:they could suppilie monster but you have to special order them.
that way it discourages ingronant or unknowing fools from buying them.
and you can have your monster if you know you can provide a good home
no permits, no forms, no bs
go with my suggestion
THANK YOU GUPPY! You're the first person to mention the core of why most people are so apprehensive about changing the law. Here in the states, it has become commonplace for a bunch of elitist control freaks to set new standards. Who picks them? We won't! 
i would buy a fish even if i didn't have a big enough tank at the time. hell i am doing it right now. i have a jag in a 55, i have an arrow in a 33L. why shouldn't I?
because i don't have a big enough tank right now doesn't mean that i won't when the time comes it also doesn't mean that i can not afford one
because i don't have a big enough tank right now doesn't mean that i won't when the time comes it also doesn't mean that i can not afford one
guppy said:
I agree. It may be straying from the topic a bit but how many people have kids that they can't afford? Then everyone else ends up paying for them...
finsandfangs,
I must be missing something. If you can afford the tanks why don't you have them?
Anyhow another one of the big problems is the USDA is already understaffed. If they end up having to do inspections in every home with a tank then it would end up costing everyone in the long run.
