ID Please.....Red Dat?

[Steve_89]

I saw the nicest MJ today. It was beautiful.

I know of quite a few people keeping large MJ. Most add 1 table spoon of salt per 5gallons.

Most of these fish have been caught out of brackish rivers as adults though.

 

[ashdavid]

Hello Ashdavid, thanks for taking the time to respond to my comments. Here I'll list some information supporting my comment, and thanks for taking the time to read.

Back ground: I've kept my first L. argentimaculatus when I was 8, so about 20+ years ago, caught a dozen or so in Hong Kong during the mid 80's from the ocean to estuary creeks. Eaten them and seen them from 3" to 2 feet plus in supermarkets. I am currenlty raising one, for almost 30 months now, from 2" to 18" plus currently, eating everything in sight, kept in a variety of salinity and water conditions, but never anywhere near even "brackish" by definition.

References: I've always been very interested in fish that are amphidromous: I've actually written and corresponded with world renowned icthyologist Gerald Allen, and he stated that there are 3 species that he is aware that can live in pure freshwater indefinitly, including Lutjanus goldei ( which is found predominantly in freshwater, and sometimes in brackish), also its a very close kin to Lutjanus argentimaculatus, and lutjanus russelli, which can all live in freshwater.

In Hong Kong, these fish, 4 species of snapper fish have been bred and aquacultured for human consumption, raised in inland mud ponds, with minimal amounts of salt, for over 15 years already, and they sell them at 0.5kg-10kg specimens.

Lutjanidae snappers are secondary marine fish, having freshwater ancestral lineage. This is a eurahyline species and amphidromous or catadromous from literature.


Many of the semi-brackish fish move into open water of the ocean or deeper ocean for different reasons, including, but not limited to forage, escape predation, breed. For example, salmons, trouts, and chars, and many anadromous fish will go to the ocean to feed, grow large, return to creeks to breed, but they all have landlocked specimens that live in pure freshwater their entire lives and can breed the same.

More examples of amphidromous fish to boggle your mind: Oreochromis mossambicus the most common tilapia, can live and originates from pure freshwater environment, to hypersaline conditions of salton sea, 1.030 specific gravity. All salmonidae, many gobies, puffers. The guapote-large hericthys, found in Central America, if you look back at an old TFH article, they were found breeding in salt water pools near the ocean. The list goes on and on....I've also spoken to some field scientists down south america, stating that there are actually characins, pacus, piranhas, oscars, arapaimas, living in brackish water conditions, matter of fact, I have pictures of some, but I can post them, nor do they represent anything, but there is no reason why this guy should make this up.
These are just some supporting facts for my comments. Feel free to comment.

This was better written the first time, and my computer got unplugged accidently, and now I really didn't have the energy to rewrite it all again, but I might add a few comments here and there to support my theories.

Hey Fugupuff,
Thanks for the reply. I may have been a little lazy when I said they need salt water, I should have elaborated a little bit. When I say salt water, I mean that they need some degree of salt in the water that they live in, but I have too say that they pretty much need full brackish water to keep good health and desease at a minimum. From my experience, once they get bigger they don't do so well in near fresh water, slowly their appetite dwindles and then they start to show different signs of stress, then ultimately they die. I tried this with quite a few MJ's and I ended up with the same result everytime. However in full salt they thrived and one of my fish grew to the size I previously mentioned. This tells me that they prefer full salt over near fresh water due to the facts previuosly stated. That is pretty much what I am trying to say, that these fish need quite a bit of salt in there water to stay healthy for their entire life. Thanks

 

[scat66]

have a look at this

 

[JD_MAN]

I think that I will be finding a new home for him.

 

[messiner]

have a look at this

if thats a mangrove its exanthic or somthing. im 90% sure thats not a mangrove snapper.

 

[scat66]

mate its a mangrove jack caught of the coast of queensland

 

[Taz2478]

if thats a mangrove its exanthic or somthing. im 90% sure thats not a mangrove snapper.

 

[odalisay]

Hello Ashdavid, thanks for taking the time to respond to my comments. Here I'll list some information supporting my comment, and thanks for taking the time to read.

Back ground: I've kept my first L. argentimaculatus when I was 8, so about 20+ years ago, caught a dozen or so in Hong Kong during the mid 80's from the ocean to estuary creeks. Eaten them and seen them from 3" to 2 feet plus in supermarkets. I am currenlty raising one, for almost 30 months now, from 2" to 18" plus currently, eating everything in sight, kept in a variety of salinity and water conditions, but never anywhere near even "brackish" by definition.

References: I've always been very interested in fish that are amphidromous: I've actually written and corresponded with world renowned icthyologist Gerald Allen, and he stated that there are 3 species that he is aware that can live in pure freshwater indefinitly, including Lutjanus goldei ( which is found predominantly in freshwater, and sometimes in brackish), also its a very close kin to Lutjanus argentimaculatus, and lutjanus russelli, which can all live in freshwater.

In Hong Kong, these fish, 4 species of snapper fish have been bred and aquacultured for human consumption, raised in inland mud ponds, with minimal amounts of salt, for over 15 years already, and they sell them at 0.5kg-10kg specimens.

Lutjanidae snappers are secondary marine fish, having freshwater ancestral lineage. This is a eurahyline species and amphidromous or catadromous from literature.


Many of the semi-brackish fish move into open water of the ocean or deeper ocean for different reasons, including, but not limited to forage, escape predation, breed. For example, salmons, trouts, and chars, and many anadromous fish will go to the ocean to feed, grow large, return to creeks to breed, but they all have landlocked specimens that live in pure freshwater their entire lives and can breed the same.

More examples of amphidromous fish to boggle your mind: Oreochromis mossambicus the most common tilapia, can live and originates from pure freshwater environment, to hypersaline conditions of salton sea, 1.030 specific gravity. All salmonidae, many gobies, puffers. The guapote-large hericthys, found in Central America, if you look back at an old TFH article, they were found breeding in salt water pools near the ocean. The list goes on and on....I've also spoken to some field scientists down south america, stating that there are actually characins, pacus, piranhas, oscars, arapaimas, living in brackish water conditions, matter of fact, I have pictures of some, but I can post them, nor do they represent anything, but there is no reason why this guy should make this up.
These are just some supporting facts for my comments. Feel free to comment.

This was better written the first time, and my computer got unplugged accidently, and now I really didn't have the energy to rewrite it all again, but I might add a few comments here and there to support my theories.

I just picked one up last night, about 2". I was worried about him surviving because of not knowing if he needed full brackish water. But I knew that some people were keeping them in full fresh. He looked fine this morning and last night even ate a feeder. Hopefully I can keep him alive long enough. All the info in this thread is very enlightening. Thanks to all the big dogs chiming in.

 

[JD_MAN]

I just picked one up last night, about 2". I was worried about him surviving because of not knowing if he needed full brackish water. But I knew that some people were keeping them in full fresh. He looked fine this morning and last night even ate a feeder. Hopefully I can keep him alive long enough. All the info in this thread is very enlightening. Thanks to all the big dogs chiming in.

My guy is still doing great in 100% fresh water and he is about 12" now. He eats non stop and has destroyed a couple of pounds of market shrimp.

 

[citizen]

This whole argument over how big a fish gets or which one is which is fairly redundant. You guys are agruing over different fish that intermingle the same common names. Here is an article about snapper showing that the mislabeling of snapper fish is very common. research.unc.edu/endeavors/win2005/snapper.php There are a large number of snapper species that all look quite similar, and i believe this is where the confusion lies. Im guessing that fish is never going to exceed the 24" mark but thats still probally bigger than you want to deal with.