Ideas for a Mbuna tank?

[Stevie2steezy]

So this is my first time having an aquarium, and I currently have a 29gal tank with 12 mbuna. I plan on upgrading to a 55 gal tank, and I'm wondering if I should add more fish (and if so, what kind and how many). I only plan on buying the species that I already have. I've been raising them for 4 months and so far the biggest fish are about 3" long.

So far my tank has:

4 x demasoni (reason for this post)
4 x yellow lab
4 x red zebras


What I'm concerned about is the aggression that my demasoni are going to project onto each other/the other fish. I really don't want to deal with bloat, or worse, having my fish die.

I don't want to get rid of any of the fish I already have (last resort), and I'd really rather not go through the process of pulling out any unwanted males (for the demasoni I believe I have 2 males and 2 females, with 1 of the males being the alpha/most aggressive). It will be difficult finding somebody who would want to buy these fish and I don't have the heart to flush them down the toilet..

I'd also rather not have my tank loaded with rockscape because I don't want to commit a whole lot of time cleaning it.

If anyone can throw me some suggestions, I'd really appreciate it. I plan on getting the 55gal very soon and work on this project throughout the pandemic.

Heres a pic of my tank.. currently it has no rockscape because I'm cleaning it.

 

[phreeflow]

Mbuna are one of those odd fish that need to be crowded to be kept successfully. That spreads out aggression. Also, unlike South or Central American cichlids that need big territories, mbuna need a lot of rockwork for little micro territories they will want to protect. In other words, you need more rocks and more fish if aggression is an issue and some good filtration. Also, demasoni are some of the most popular of all mbuna and you shouldn’t have an issue finding people or stores that want them should they breed

 

[james99]

Without doing the things you said you dont want to do, I think you're going to have a difficult time having a successful tank. Demasoni seem to work best with larger groups and single males. Labs and zebra cross breed easily, it will be nearly impossible to stop them from breeding, so with labs and zebras you'll end up with mutts that you would have to hold on to, alot of cichlid keepers frown upon hybrids. Not to mention if you kept zebras, you would also have to remove extra males. I'm not even sure if I would keep zebras in a 55, they end up being big chunky fish that can be very mean in a small tank.

The labs are about the only ones you wouldn't have to worry about male to female ratios. Unless you end up with an overly aggressive male.

Also, all of these look the same between male and females, except slight color differences in the red zebras, so you'll have to learn how to vent the fish and constantly watch for fish being bullied so they can be removed, these will mostly be extra males.

Easiest way to get the right stocking is to buy double of each species, and weed out extra males as the become visible until you have your desired numbers. Which in your case would around 1m/11f demasoni and 1m/4f of the labs or zebras.

 

[DJRansome]

If you don't want rocks I would not stock mbuna. And if you don't want to remove males I would not stock any fish from Lake Malawi. You might get lucky with yellow labs with ratios as mentioned.

 

[Gourami Swami]

I think you are going to have to get over the idea of not spending time cleaning the tank, if you want to have a heavily stocked mbuna tank. It is going to need quite a bit of cleaning. And the fish will be much happier with rocks in the tank to establish territories and hide from each other when they are getting beat up on. If you want a tank that you don't have to clean much, going for a lightly stocked low-tech heavily planted tank with smaller fish like tetras will be much lower maintenance. Some people even build systems that are more or less self-cleaning (look up walstad method) but these setups are nothing like the mbuna tank you have in mind.
My advice would be to decide if you want your mbuna tank, or if you want a low maintenance tank. If you go for the mbuna, I'd add lots of rocks in the 55 gallon. Best idea would be to get rid of one species (probably the zebras IMO) and keep the others. Adjust male/female ratio when you can tell the sexes. They will probably breed eventually but the demasoni and labs are less likely to hybridize, and if you have pure babies you could sell them off.

 

[Stevie2steezy]

Thanks guys for the sound advice, I really appreciate the help. Especially DJRansome, who helped me out in a different thread.

Just bought the 55 gal today, and I'm prepared to load the tank with rockscape, just wanted to see if there could possibly be another alternative (Someone on a different forum posted about overcrowding the tank and not giving them any territories to counter aggression) but I personally never really leaned toward that method, since the fish have no habitat to enjoy.

As for getting rid of my red zebras, it will be very hard for me to let go because I love all my fish, but it looks like I might have to unless I figure out a way to deal with the hybrids. I know they're looked down upon but the thought about hybrids actually intrigued me, being new to this hobby and all.

I'll update this thread when I stock up the tank.

 

[A201]

Set up the new tank. Construct an elevated rock hardscape, do an "instant cycle" with your used filter media. Transfer the current stock & watch the show.
You'll figure out what adjustments need to be made.
Chances are that most fry will be consumed by tankmates, unless actions are taken to save them.
You will probably want to add more Mbuna as things progress. Be sure to do your homework before buying.
Consult the forum when problems arise & provide updates.

 

[Gourami Swami]

Thanks guys for the sound advice, I really appreciate the help. Especially DJRansome, who helped me out in a different thread.

Just bought the 55 gal today, and I'm prepared to load the tank with rockscape, just wanted to see if there could possibly be another alternative (Someone on a different forum posted about overcrowding the tank and not giving them any territories to counter aggression) but I personally never really leaned toward that method, since the fish have no habitat to enjoy.

As for getting rid of my red zebras, it will be very hard for me to let go because I love all my fish, but it looks like I might have to unless I figure out a way to deal with the hybrids. I know they're looked down upon but the thought about hybrids actually intrigued me, being new to this hobby and all.

I'll update this thread when I stock up the tank.

To me, the rocks are the best way to go because it would mimic what mbuna see in the wild in lake Malawi. If you look at footage of the lake it's basically just a rocky bottom. Another way you could imitate this would be to create a 3-d background yourself with lots of small caves and overhangs. You can use expanding foam or Styrofoam to do this, there are plenty of methods. Quick youtube search will bring up a bunch of tutorials. You could also use some tough-leaved plants in the tank. Mbuna will pick at most plants but there are some which can hold up to it well, I've had good luck with anubias and crypto sword plants in mbuna tanks.
On the hybrids, it may be an interesting concept, but please don't let the hybrids leave your tank if that happens. Don't sell them or give them away. Most will probably be eaten by the mbuna, and you could also add synodontus catfish (like s. petricola for this tank size) which live with african cichlids in the wild and will also help eat the fry.

 

[The Morning]

As far as the hybrids go I allowed various mbuna to breed in my tank and in retrospect wished I had not The majority of the fry especially several generations in are generally drab color wise as the genetics get muddled together. Every once in a while a stunning specimen is produced but very rarely. I have since set up my tanks to give fry minimal chance of survival as most of my mbuna are not pure and I won’t sell or trade them. If I was to do a mbuna tank over I would set it up with just one kind.

 

[Stevie2steezy]

As far as the hybrids go I allowed various mbuna to breed in my tank and in retrospect wished I had not The majority of the fry especially several generations in are generally drab color wise as the genetics get muddled together. Every once in a while a stunning specimen is produced but very rarely. I have since set up my tanks to give fry minimal chance of survival as most of my mbuna are not pure and I won’t sell or trade them. If I was to do a mbuna tank over I would set it up with just one kind.

That's not a bad idea actually. Maybe take the rockscape out right before the fry leave the mom's mouth? How did you set your tank up to give fry a minimal chance of survival? One of my yellow labs already released fry from her mouth about a month ago but none of them survived.. I assumed it was because I had such a small tank, although I did have quite a bit of rocks in there