Identify this fish...

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Gamefishin said:
Take for example the Stripe bass, then they also got one that's refered to a "Hybrid" striped bass which has been cross bred with (I think) the white bass. Now it's called "hybrid" in the books but you can argue that this hybrid bass is still the same species so it isn't. So I'm going by what they call these fish by the books and not by true science.

You can also take the tiger muskie, it's cross between a northern pike and a muskie so it's consider a hybrid too right or wrong???
Click to expand...

Both the striped bass and the tiger muskie are true hybrids...a cross between two species. I know you don't see the harm in calling the largemouth cross a hybrid but I would be careful spreading mis-information. You can go ahead and say that to someone, then they assume there are two species of largemouth (because they know a hybrid is a cross between species) so they then tell someone else that their are two largemouth species etc. etc. It's not a good thing.
 
That was just one of the few sources that I've found that carry this information so don't worry about me and my false information . Think how many people get access to this info other than me. Like I said I'm not 100% sure on anything just what sources tells me, just like all of you guys and the info we get cause I know nobody here studies fish biology.

So are you guys saying that these sources are not valid? Do you guys have any "real" sources to back up you claim that there is no such thing as a hybrid large mouth bass. Or that it's 100% not correct to even call it a "hybrid".

I would like to see facts and not word of mouth too, but yeah I understand what you guys are saying.
 
Are you sure knowone here studies fish biology?

To the best of my knowledge there is no such thing as a largemouth hybrid of any kind. Yes, I am saying the sources are not valid. Many internet sources are wrong. Look the term hybrid up in a Webster's or something. Then check the latin names of both largemouths. You will find for yourself they are the same species and that crossing them cannot create a hybrid. You don't need me to find the information for you. I corrected you, it is up to you to learn more if you are questioning my facts.
 
Definition of hybrid;
Hybrid, strictly defined, an offspring that is a cross between different species, genera, or, in rare cases, families. More loosely defined, a hybrid can also be a cross between parents of different subspecies or varieties of a species. (ENCARTA Encylopedia).

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(Black)Largemouth Bass


name CJ
status other
age 30s

Question - Are black bass and largemouth bass the same thing? What is
the scientific name for each?
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The black bass and largemouth bass are the same fish. In the United
States, it is commonly known as largemouth bass, black bass, green bass,
Oswego bass, slough bass, lake bass, bigmouth, bucket mouth, southern
largemouth, northern largemouth, Florida bass, largmouth black bass, straw
bass, bayou bass, moss bass, grass bass, march bass, trout, green trout,
welchman, and chub.

The scientific name is Micropterus Salmoides (Lacepede). The taxonomy is
as follows:
phylum: Vertebrata
subphylum: Craniata
superclass: Gnathostomata
series: Pisces
class: Teleostomi
subclass: Actinopterygii
order: Perciformes
suborder: Percoidei
family: Centratchidae

There are two subspecies, first described in about 1949. Micropterus
Salmoides floridanus (LeSueur)was originally found in fresh waters of
peninsular Florida. It is now found in some parts of Georgia. This
subspecies has 14 abdominal vertebrae.

Micropterus Salmoides salmoides (Lacepede) was originally found in fresh
waters of the lower Great Lakes drainage, middle Mississippi River system
south to the Gulf Coast, Florida, and north to the coastal watersheds in
Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia. This subspecies has
15 abdominal vertebrae.

Hybrids have been attempted of these two sub species. The f1 generation is
very robust and larger, but these diminish sharply in the f2 generation and
beyond.

What follows are the common names for this fish in different countries:
Australia: Black bass, freshwater perch, gippoland perch.
Austria: Forellembarsch, perche truitee
Canada: Largemouth bass, achigan a grande bouche, and many of the terms
used in the US.
Czech Republic and Slovakia: okounek pstrukovy, ostracka
France: Black bass a grande boushe, perche truite.
Germany: Forellembarsch, grossmauliger forellenbarsch.
Hungary: Fekete suger, pisztrangsuger
Italy: persico trota, boccalone
Mexico: Tucha de patzcuaro, robalo fino, corvina negra, black bass, huro
y otros
Netherlands: Florellenbaars
Poland: weilkogebowy, bas weilkohebowy
Portugal: Black bass, perca americana, perca trucha, boca grande, robal
negro, achiga

You may wish to check _Synopsis of Biological Data on the Largemouth Bass
Micropterus salmoides (Lacepede) 1802_, prepared by Roy C. Heidinger of the
Fisheries Research Laboratory and Department of Zoology, Southern Illinois
University, Carbondale, Illinois. It is printed by the Food and
Agriculture Organization of the United Nations in Rome, back in November
1976. ISBN 92-5-100211-8

Nathan A. Unterman
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Both sides of this argument are correct, in the strictest sense hybrids do not occur within a species, in general usage crossbreeds between well established strains or subspecies are often referred to as hybrids even in scientific literature. :raspberry
 
guppy There are two subspecies said:
Ok so there are two subspecies for the LMB here in the states from the info here. Then the last paragraph I quoted says "Hybrids" have been attempted. So is there hybrids or not????
Click to expand...
 
guppy said:
There are two subspecies, first described in about 1949. Micropterus
Salmoides floridanus (LeSueur)was originally found in fresh waters of
peninsular Florida. It is now found in some parts of Georgia. This
subspecies has 14 abdominal vertebrae.

Micropterus Salmoides salmoides (Lacepede) was originally found in fresh
waters of the lower Great Lakes drainage, middle Mississippi River system
south to the Gulf Coast, Florida, and north to the coastal watersheds in
Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia. This subspecies has
15 abdominal vertebrae.

Hybrids have been attempted of these two sub species. The f1 generation is
very robust and larger, but these diminish sharply in the f2 generation and
beyond.
Click to expand...


Ok so there are two subspecies for the LMB here in the states from the info here. Then the last paragraph I quoted says "Hybrids" have been attempted. So is there hybrids or not????
 
Again, yes and no.
By the strict encyclopedia definition of the word hybrid, no, crossbreeds within the species are not technicaly hybrids.
Under general usage of the word then yes, crossbreeds between established subspecies (as opposed to color variants) are often referred to as hybrids, even in taxomic and biologic refferences.
As I said, both sides are correct.
I recently read a book on pond cultured bass and they went a bit further with cross breeding the northern and southern strains of LMB and they said that if f2 offspring breed that by f4 the young are indistinguishable from the northern strain except by dissection, then a few specimens show up with only 14 abdominal vertabrae, the local college has a nice library.
I personally prefer the strickter usage of the term hybrid, and use it to refer to mixes between different specie, and I try to use the term crossbreed for mixes between strains or subspecies.
 
I didn't know you could use the term hybrid for a cross between subspecies, I will still continue to use it for a cross between two species...less confusing if you ask me and more widely excepted.
As for the black bass name...yes, you can use it for largemouths but it can also be used for any member of that genus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bass
 
that is definetly a large mouth, looks like it must have been a good catch too, i just caught one a couple of days ago..... awesome
 
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