Insane arapaima aquaculture faculty in the US

[wednesday13]

I hope this doesn't end up being the same situation as, say, 99% of tankbuster catfish, where the farms that raise them for food are able to make juveniles very cheap and readily available to pet stores.

“sustainable” fish supply is a good thing IMO… less “harm” to wild populations. The worry is farm fish escaping during floods. Fish destined to die are just that… food or “personal enjoyment”… there made to die anyway. Someone keeping one at home is actually prolonging their eminent demise lol… “food” is wasted every day, its really no different. The good thing is its not wild fish going through the “process”. Most every other country is light years ahead of the U.S. for fish farming. Its good to see articles like this. “Enjoy the benifits” so to speak as a fish keeper lol… ??‍. “Fish stores” will always b fish stores, its just a business like any other.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

“sustainable” fish supply is a good thing IMO… less “harm” to wild populations. The worry is farm fish escaping during floods. Fish destined to die are just that… food or “personal enjoyment”… there made to die anyway. Someone keeping one at home is actually prolonging their eminent demise lol… “food” is wasted every day, its really no different. The good thing is its not wild fish going through the “process”. Most every other country is light years ahead of the U.S. for fish farming. Its good to see articles like this. “Enjoy the benifits” so to speak as a fish keeper lol… ??‍. “Fish stores” will always b fish stores, its just a business like any other.

Well, this (as described in the quote below) is a serious problem. I don't have any problem with the aquaculture farms supplying fish to the aquarium trade (as you say, sustainable and takes pressure off wild stock), as long as the fish are only available to those who can house them.
The problem is that they aren't, and it creates a real welfare issue.

The majority of ‘problem’ species, i.e., those available in large numbers at low prices such as Pangasius, Pangasiodon, Pseudoplaytstoma, Phractocephalus, Colossoma, Piaractus, Clarias, etc., are not produced by ornamental fish farms but as by-product of intensive aquaculture projects, hence juveniles are very cheap to buy.

This also means fat profit margins for exporters so they’re unlikely to disappear from trade lists anytime soon, while self-regulation within the hobby has not proven effective thus far, something the Big Fish Campaign hopes to change.

As is typical of young animals these species are appealing to look at, therefore easy to sell, and invariably die quite quickly, thus sales are often repeated. Hundreds of thousands of juveniles are sold for aquaria each year, with most doomed to a drastically-reduced lifespan.

It’s tempting to sensationalise but perhaps less people would buy these fishes if they realised the underlying cruelty involved in doing so.

The trade of these fishes should not necessarily be prevented, but the sale of thousands of juveniles each year represents a serious animal welfare issue and they should be reserved for those who can afford to maintain them correctly.

Consumers, feel free to buy big fishes but only if you possess the resources required to do so!!!

Stunted growth means stunted lives — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

In regards to this last point, many consumers clearly don't posses said resources. Therefore I concur with Seriously Fish that while it's perfectly fine to source them from aquaculture to sell them to suitable consumers, these big fish are too widely available compared to the actual amount of suitable consumers.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Edit function expired.
In case this wasn't clear enough, my overall point is not that aquaculture farms supplying aquarium stores is bad. It's that the resultant availability of fish to the wrong consumers and not enough proper consumers from huge numbers of big fish being sold to the aquarium industry from the aquaculture industry, so the big fish shouldn't be as widely available as they are, in order to restrict purchases of them to consumers that have what it takes to care for them.

 

[wednesday13]

Well, this (as described in the quote below) is a serious problem. I don't have any problem with the aquaculture farms supplying fish to the aquarium trade (as you say, sustainable and takes pressure off wild stock), as long as the fish are only available to those who can house them.
The problem is that they aren't, and it creates a real welfare issue.

Stunted growth means stunted lives — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

In regards to this last point, many consumers clearly don't posses said resources. Therefore I concur with Seriously Fish that while it's perfectly fine to source them from aquaculture to sell them to suitable consumers, these big fish are too widely available compared to the actual amount of suitable consumers.

We dont get to choose who is a “sustainable” customer… everyone has the “right” to be. We surely do not need someone deciding that for us either… Again these fish are made to die. Compare it to chickens or cows… its just food. If you wanna “play” with ur food in a box of water then flush it, knock urself out lol… saying “fish keeping” should only be for a certain group of people is ridiculous. We have enough bs laws and hoops to jump through already even if u are “qualified”… Why support the opposition to make things worse for the every day “consumer”. Why does the “scale” of fish matter to people who support the industry by keeping fish. Its all the same. Are u concerned for the “welfare” of say tetras ?… millions prob die on their way to the lfs, its just buisness. There “smaller” so their “welfare” is overlooked. Once u “open that door” it doesn’t end well for people who enjoy keeping fish in a box at home.

 

[wednesday13]

Edit function expired.
In case this wasn't clear enough, my overall point is not that aquaculture farms supplying aquarium stores is bad. It's that the resultant availability of fish to the wrong consumers and not enough proper consumers from huge numbers of big fish being sold to the aquarium industry from the aquaculture industry, so the big fish shouldn't be as widely available as they are, in order to restrict purchases of them to consumers that have what it takes to care for them.

Ur advocating ur own rights being taken away lol… do u wanna pay for a yearly permit to keep goldfish and have ur home randomly inspected by authorities at will. Thats the ladder ??‍… no bueno. Im all for proper husbandry… i get it… im afraid were going to far with it these days tho. I respect your respect for animal welfare also ??… the problem is those “in charge” have zero respect for ur well being or that of a fish. Its just about money…

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

We dont get to choose who is a “sustainable” customer… everyone has the “right” to be. We surely do not need someone deciding that for us either… Again these fish are made to die. Compare it to chickens or cows… its just food. If you wanna “play” with ur food in a box of water then flush it, knock urself out lol… saying “fish keeping” should only be for a certain group of people is ridiculous. We have enough bs laws and hoops to jump through already even if u are “qualified”… Why support the opposition to make things worse for the every day “consumer”. Why does the “scale” of fish matter to people who support the industry by keeping fish. Its all the same. Are u concerned for the “welfare” of say tetras ?… millions prob die on their way to the lfs, its just buisness. There “smaller” so their “welfare” is overlooked. Once u “open that door” it doesn’t end well for people who enjoy keeping fish in a box at home.

Of course fish die while being imported, that's not what I was disputing or even talking about.
But in regards to the rest and your other comment: I think if you're going to keep a fish, you're obligated to meet all of its requirements. They are not toys, if you want to keep them, you should care for them properly or don't bother having them at all.
That's like keeping a dog in a small (3x3 meter, say) closet its whole life. It will live but it won't live well, it doesn't have what it needs for that.
Viewing fish as food to 'play' with by keeping them in improper tanks/etc is inhumane. This is also the reason I don't buy from aquaculture unless it's MSC certified, to ensure the fish were being raised well.
In short, just as I said before, I care about the welfare of the fish and they should not be available to anyone who cannot care for them. It's just the same as with dogs and such, fish are not disposable.

 

[wednesday13]

Of course fish die while being imported, that's not what I was disputing or even talking about.
But in regards to the rest and your other comment: I think if you're going to keep a fish, you're obligated to meet all of its requirements. They are not toys, if you want to keep them, you should care for them properly or don't bother having them at all.
That's like keeping a dog in a small (3x3 meter, say) closet its whole life. It will live but it won't live well, it doesn't have what it needs for that.
Viewing fish as food to 'play' with by keeping them in improper tanks/etc is inhumane. This is also the reason I don't buy from aquaculture unless it's MSC certified, to ensure the fish were being raised well.
In short, just as I said before, I care about the welfare of the fish and they should not be available to anyone who cannot care for them. It's just the same as with dogs and such, fish are not disposable.

Who gets to decide what “proper housing requirements” are for anything. Thats your own right and opinion. My main point is this right/opinion should not be pre determined for u.

 

[MultipleTankSyndrome]

Let me ask you this: do most aquarists have the facilities to house a 3-4.5 meter long fish?
Obviously they don't, since most aquarists do not even have 3-4.5 meter aquariums (which would obviously not even be sufficient anyway, since they're only as long as the arapaima and therefore give it no room to swim other than only in place).
In the case of the arapaima, it should be clear that this is the case.

 

[phreeflow]

Ur advocating ur own rights being taken away lol… do u wanna pay for a yearly permit to keep goldfish and have ur home randomly inspected by authorities at will. Thats the ladder ??‍… no bueno. Im all for proper husbandry… i get it… im afraid were going to far with it these days tho. I respect your respect for animal welfare also ??… the problem is those “in charge” have zero respect for ur well being or that of a fish. Its just about money…

This about sums it up. People should be educated about proper fish husbandry but people should not be policed. Will you require LFS owners to do home inspections or require people interested in purchasing a pacu or a dovii to present a permit?

It would be a far better use of resources to educate people. Most people do care about their pets and if they knew how big some of these fish get, most would CHOOSE to get something else.

 

[RD.]

Countless millions of tropical fish die every day, for the sake of our hobby.

It’s a slippery slope, be careful what you wish for.