Interesting read for those who feed fish multiple times a day

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An alternative way to estimate feed amounts might be to track how long a container lasts someone for a given tank and number of fish. Not something I think that much about, when I get low I buy more, but I'm sure some people would know. Some years ago I did my own fairly thorough version of a feed study, but my objective was to distinguish which products were better, not exact amounts per fish, etc.

Was a mod with Larry Johnson on an African cichlid forum for a few years and he said the same thing, especially aulonocara species being smaller in the wild. (Larry has been diving the lake for years on various research, conservation, and collecting trips.)

I think it depends on the type, though, and not a 100% rule. Some wild species can be just as big or some individuals bigger than most tank counterparts; even so, the wild versions may be slower growing and smaller at the same age.

Imo, wild fish of some types being smaller than tank fish isn't a huge issue in itself, a wild fish is likely expending more energy for less nutrient dense food, but that same fact argues for feeding less-- a wild fish expends more energy, often for less nutrient dense foods, so our fish often don't require as much some think.

But imo there's likely another factor, which is what's in some foods. Humans are statistically getting fatter and there's a lot of literature saying it's not just volume of food, but what's been done to our food, the processing, certain ingredients becoming ubiquitous in the food supply, etc. I suspect it's similar with fish food as some of the same ingredients (like soy and corn derivatives) are common in fish feed and other ingredients in some products (feather meal as one example) are used because they're cheap.
 
Water quality suffers when fish are over fed too. What goes in must come out.
I have always been against the so called need for a clean up crew. I see so many post about it, and people get really defensive when you say it's BS. IMO they are just looking for an excuse to add fish to an already crowded tank. They justify the purchase by giving a fish a role like it's adding a filter. If they didn't over feed, they wouldn't need a clean up crew in the first place.
 
What's is worse is feeding a fish twice a week because your nitrates will sky rocket if you feed any more.... Many folks overstock and underfed just to maintain 40ppm nitrates.

If you want low nitrates don't overstock. Period.
 
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I think that today it is easier than ever to overfeed a fish, the same as it is easier to overfeed a dog, or cat. Today's premium brands of pet foods are FAR more nutrient dense, with FAR less fillers than say 30 or 40 years ago.

One has to follow the energy requirements of the animal, and nutrient density & ME (kcal/kg) of the food very closely, or the animal can quickly become overweight. We see this in cats & dogs all the time. Too much of a good thing, can easily become a bad thing.


Back before creation of foods such as NLS, Omega, Northfin, etc. Thirty years ago foods largely consisted of carb fillers, typically derived from grain processing leftovers. Low cost alternatives, or fillers such as corn flakes, dried bakery products, soybean meal, rice bran, wheat middlings, etc. were far more common place. They provided a lower cost form of protein, and a lower cost form of energy. Protein is and always has been the most expensive raw ingredient in fish food, so companies looked for cheaper alternatives to fish meal etc. Many still do, some of the raw ingredients I listed above are still used by some very large manufacturers. Those companies count on consumer ignorance, just as many dog and cat food companies that still utilize less than ideal (cheaper) raw ingredients in their various formulas.


Wild fish seldom have the luxury of stuffing themselves with nutrient dense foods, and when they do, it's a seasonal situation that typically triggers their spawning season. The rest of the year it quickly drops from a feast, to famine, which is why one seldom sees fat fish in the wild. The extra calories that adults consume goes to energy used to produce eggs/sperm, and breeding, and the fry/juvies use that extra nutrient load to grow large enough to hopefully survive the upcoming dry season, when nutrients levels can drop to next to nothing.

This is why we compare wild specimens, to fish raised in a glass box. Failure to do so can easily result in fish that are supplied far greater nutrient levels than what is required by the animal, which over the long haul can lead to health issues.
 
Back before creation of foods such as NLS, Omega, Northfin, etc. Thirty years ago foods largely consisted of carb fillers, typically derived from grain processing leftovers. Low cost alternatives, or fillers such as corn flakes, dried bakery products, soybean meal, rice bran, wheat middlings, etc. were far more common place. They provided a lower cost form of protein, and a lower cost form of energy. Protein is and always has been the most expensive raw ingredient in fish food, so companies looked for cheaper alternatives to fish meal etc. Many still do, some of the raw ingredients I listed above are still used by some very large manufacturers. Those companies count on consumer ignorance, just as many dog and cat food companies that still utilize less than ideal (cheaper) raw ingredients in their various formulas.
I remember when OSI was new in my area and we considered it a premium food compared to the other stuff around, or when HBH products like African Cichlid Attack were new and seemed like such a big deal.

In those days I fed a lot of live (and some frozen) brine shrimp, expensive but worth it to me. Kept discus, other SA, and a lot of oddballs in those years and it meant I had a lot of success without ever seeing the need or sense of going down the beef heart road that a lot of other discus keepers were on... and strangely enough my discus grew nice and big at the same time they lived longer than four or five years. :)

Imo one legacy from those days is we still have people who think the shotgun approach of 'variety' in the form of several different products or brands is a requirement for sufficient nutrition, the same as we still have people who think beef heart is a necessity for discus.
 
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Very good read. Thanks for bumping it back up Neil. I was extremely guilty of over feeding/ power feeding high protine foods. Trying to get my fish to grow as fast as I could. But as I have matured in the hobby I know longer have that notion. I love the thought that my fish are healthy and hopefully be around a long time. I still feed more then I'd like. But now I do to try and keep the agresion down in my Amphilophus community. When there hungry they get a little fiesty lol. But I only feed NLS and I believe that also helps a lot. With all that said I'm still guilty for the fact I just love the way a fat Amphilophus looks!!! Lol
 
Figured I'd bump this bc I found this two weeks ago and it really helped me with feeding. I think it's still an ongoing process trying to figure out how much to feed but I'm trying to fast the display tank twice a week and feed once a day (or twice a day: sinking foods when lights are out or about to go out and floating/slow sinking pellets when lights are on).

I think in was feeding too much as I'd feed heavily twice a day.

It's hard to fast sometimes bc I see the Loaches constantly digging. Ive given into feeding but I try to remind myself that I used to feed the tank so little when I wasn't really into the hobby (for like 5-8 years prior to last year). I'd skip days and sometimes give 2 wafers only for one pleco and three clown loaches.

I will say that the pleco and panda garra are eating more.algae now since I'm not giving as many wafers as I used to (I'd give double or triple what I'm now giving).

The great difference is I can reduce tank maintenance. The amount I was feeding before was requiring water changes every 3-4 days. With three feedings and a fast day, at day 5, nitrates were between 5-10ppm. I don't mind changing water twice a week but now I figure I can be less stressed about it. I can do when it's convenient in 3-6 days windows.

It's good now that I think I'd feel comfortable leaving on trips for up to two weeks as I could reduce the amount of food I'd leave and add in several fasting days. I used to not want to leave for more than 4 days bc nitrates would get too high from food I'd leave to be fed.
 
I know this is posted in the cichlids section, but I am wondering if this also applies to rays? All the literature I have read thus far says they need to eat 2-3 times daily.
 
I believe that rays typically have a higher metabolic rate, but I have friends that only fed once a day for years without issue.
 
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