Intermedia

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
What does going to USFW to declare and process entail?
Its really quite tempting. We could do a big group buy and pick up in SFO airport....?
 
ultimatejay said:
Why would there be any difference between wild and F1,f2....? They are coming from the same parents and same genes, the fish should all look the same if given the proper diet and water conditions.



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Fish in the wild will survive & breed with the "best to best"; or at very least 2 quality adult fish who were strong enough to grow to adulthood in the dangers of the wild. The end result of 2 specimens in the wild mating is beautiful offspring who represent the genes of their strong adult parents. What happens in captivity is fish come in a batch. Most likely a very high percentage of that batch (if not all of it) are siblings from the same parents. So then we all get these brothers & sisters & so do the breeders in singapore, etc. etc. Now we have a bunch of siblings growing up & getting bred to each other in captivity. Inbreeding begins. In addition to that, survival of the fittest living in the wild is taken out of the equation, & thus less quality fish. You have to consider many of the fish that live to adulthood in our tanks would never had made it to adulthood in the wild.
 
tomka123 said:
Has anyone else bought any of these fish? If so, please post some pics or videos. All talk talk talk. I'll say it again, of course these fish are popping up at numerous vendors. It's not like Rapps or any of the others go & collect the fish themselves. A wholesaler in another country got a batch & many vendors have gotten their hands on them. With Boettner having F-1 babies also coming soon, the conversation should be the good old Wild Caught vs. F1 topic. If you go by all the past conversations about any type of fish, the Wild Caught are the ones that most often are the most beautiful & most desired. The old schoolers always said they would pay more for WC than F1,2, or 3. Once the breeders in Singapore get their hands on these they will be all over the place & getting cheaper, but also F2 & F3 will be far different from the ones these vendors are offering up right now. So let's try to document the look of these wild caught young & old; & do the same for the upcoming Boettner batch & others that will soon follow. I am pretty sure this batch will show out far & above the others. I sure hope so since I got 5 of em'!
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Hi Tomka
I had kept total 30 intermedia from 3 deferent batches in past.
They had an indivudual deference in even same batch.
I'm still holding each frozen specimen as a sample.
Cheers,
Seiichi
 
Seiichi Hamada said:
Hi Tomka
I had kept total 30 intermedia from 3 deferent batches in past.
They had an indivudual deference in even same batch.
I'm still holding each frozen specimen as a sample.
Cheers,
Seiichi
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Cool! So now everyone can see it is rare to see them around & a nice opportunity in the hobby! Do u now have a new collection growing?


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tomka123 said:
Fish in the wild will survive & breed with the "best to best"; or at very least 2 quality adult fish who were strong enough to grow to adulthood in the dangers of the wild. The end result of 2 specimens in the wild mating is beautiful offspring who represent the genes of their strong adult parents. What happens in captivity is fish come in a batch. Most likely a very high percentage of that batch (if not all of it) are siblings from the same parents. So then we all get these brothers & sisters & so do the breeders in singapore, etc. etc. Now we have a bunch of siblings growing up & getting bred to each other in captivity. Inbreeding begins. In addition to that, survival of the fittest living in the wild is taken out of the equation, & thus less quality fish. You have to consider many of the fish that live to adulthood in our tanks would never had made it to adulthood in the wild.
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I hear you but if you already have two nice wild caught fish and breed them then the offspring should be just as nice as the parents. I'm not sure inbreeding in fish effects color but it may and obviously if you breed two not so great fish then you will get not so great fish but if you start with nice fish, then I don't see how it can downgrade unless fish are not well taken care of- stunted, bad water quality and bad diet


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ultimatejay said:
I hear you but if you already have two nice wild caught fish and breed them then the offspring should be just as nice as the parents. I'm not sure inbreeding in fish effects color but it may and obviously if you breed two not so great fish then you will get not so great fish but if you start with nice fish, then I don't see how it can downgrade unless fish are not well taken care of- stunted, bad water quality and bad diet


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It is genes & numbers we are getting into here. Shoot, the thoroughbred race horse is the most inbred animal on earth! But you are talking very well thought out breedings through multiple generations & using only the highest quality individuals to get the end results. That is not what is done in the fish business. Inbreeding will create exaggerations in offspring. Some negative & some positive. Still all I am saying here is that you will have possibility of getting individuals with negative features in F1 (especially if it is inbred) F2 even more (if it is inbred again) & F3 again. (Using the example of all F1,2, &3 coming from 3 generations of the same batch. IF I wanted to breed my intermedia the smartest thing for me to do would probably get a fish from Boettner's batch to be bred to 1 of the 5 I got from Rapps. Better than breeding 2 of the 5 I got in this batch.
 
tomka123 said:
It is genes & numbers we are getting into here. Shoot, the thoroughbred race horse is the most inbred animal on earth! But you are talking very well thought out breedings through multiple generations & using only the highest quality individuals to get the end results. That is not what is done in the fish business. Inbreeding will create exaggerations in offspring. Some negative & some positive. Still all I am saying here is that you will have possibility of getting individuals with negative features in F1 (especially if it is inbred) F2 even more (if it is inbred again) & F3 again. (Using the example of all F1,2, &3 coming from 3 generations of the same batch. IF I wanted to breed my intermedia the smartest thing for me to do would probably get a fish from Boettner's batch to be bred to 1 of the 5 I got from Rapps. Better than breeding 2 of the 5 I got in this batch.
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Why do you think it would be bad to breed from this batch you got from rapps? Do you think they are all from the same family?


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