Is Fatherfish trying to form a cult lol

[BIG-G]

J johnsfishyfingers
Welcome to MFK btw.
One more question.
How long have these tanks been up without water changes and do you consider them viable long term?

 

[tlindsey]

I have two tanks less than 20 gallons and the third is 140gallons. The 140 gallons has 12 khuli 12 oto + babies 2 bushynose 1 clown pleco 9 rainbow fish 1 pair apisto macmasteri 1 large gourami 2 sae 7 amano 14 pygmy cory 11 diamond tetra 15 emperor tetra 11 green fire tetra 9 five line barbs and 1 coconut shrimp
One of the small tanks has a betta and 26 pheonix rasbora 1 bushynose and 3 amano
The other small tank is my daughters and she has in it 1 betta and a colony of neocaridina that is 4 years old 2 amano and a plethora of nerites ramshorns bladders and mts in all three

Welcome aboard

 

[johnsfishyfingers]

Yes i have kept messy fish most fish are predators and at the very least omnivores. No i dont do any water changes in these systems. The only filtration i use is a deep substrate and media for biological filtration through beneficial bacteria. The two small tanks only have lights on them, no pumps or mechanical filters. And they are heavily planted tanks. Lots of fast growing stems and floaters also terrestrial plants planted in the top. Those arent needed i just like the asthetic of a lot of house plants in my home

 

[johnsfishyfingers]

J johnsfishyfingers
Welcome to MFK btw.
One more question.
How long have these tanks been up without water changes and do you consider them viable long term?

Oh so this is how you reply.
They have been up and running the way they are now for over 6 years and over 5 years for my daughters tank. Ive had no issues so far. There is a guy with a fish shop near me that first showed me deep substrate tanks he has tanks that he says are 20 years old. So id say pretty viable if done right.

 

[johnsfishyfingers]

Welcome aboard

Thank you

 

[Backfromthedead]

To be fair, ive probably watched about 3 minutes total of this guys vids. Too many people have access to video cameras these days imo. I cant sort the good from the trash well enough to be very active on youtube these days.

But it seems i actually do adhere to at least some of his ideas. I am always collecting bogwood and river rock for my tanks. I clean it a bit before using but i do believe that there are a lot of beneficial phytonutrients, algae, and other microorganisms embedded in "seasoned" aquascape decor....perhaps some harmful ones too. Im not a big fan of a completely sterile tank though. While i agree you cant replicate nature perfectly in an aquarium, i still think there are beneficial ways to make your tank into something that resembles your fish's real home and a good keeper should make every effort to.

 

[BIG-G]

Yes i have kept messy fish most fish are predators and at the very least omnivores. No i dont do any water changes in these systems. The only filtration i use is a deep substrate and media for biological filtration through beneficial bacteria. The two small tanks only have lights on them, no pumps or mechanical filters. And they are heavily planted tanks. Lots of fast growing stems and floaters also terrestrial plants planted in the top. Those arent needed i just like the asthetic of a lot of house plants in my home

The reason I ask about large messy fish is because my thinking is fish that like to rearrange the decor may interfere with the the substrate keeping it stirred up. Also with a lot of fish, plants are not an option.
It is my think that the reason deep substrate system may work is the ability to build anoxic areas.
With the fish I keep nitrates will easily outpace the tanks ability to deal with it without water changes, so it is my opinion that this method may be viable for some but not for most.

 

[johnsfishyfingers]

The reason I ask about large messy fish is because my thinking is fish that like to rearrange the decor may interfere with the the substrate keeping it stirred up. Also with a lot of fish, plants are not an option.
It is my think that the reason deep substrate system may work is the ability to build anoxic areas.
With the fish I keep nitrates will easily outpace the tanks ability to deal with it without water changes, so it is my opinion that this method may be viable for some but not for most.

Id say it is the opposite. Ive done this with fish that dig and fish that tear plants. You just need to outsmart the fish. Put a barrier halfway through the sand cap that plants can root into that prevents fish from getting to the bottom area. Or having fish that deal with larger fishes waste. Id argue that this works for most, but i do agree not all. Ive kept arowana in deep substrate no water change systems. So i know it can handle massive bioloads. You just have to set up the system correctly for the inhabitants.

 

[jjohnwm]

Very easy to pass judgement while self admittedly only partially watching two videos.

Well, yes, actually it is. I've seen the two vids, both essentially blathering the same things, and I don't agree with what I heard. Exactly how many times must I waste my time listening to him before I am allowed that opinion?

I don't like coconut; tasted it many times in many recipes and simply don't care for the flavour. Do I need to keep eating it before I am allowed to form that opinion...or can I just decide "Nope...don't like this stuff, not eating any more of it?"

I like naturalistic tanks, I don't medicate the crap out of my fishtanks every time a fish seems a little "off", and I agree that I want my fish to live in conditions that are as close as possible to those in which they evolved. I like low-tech; I adore low maintenance. That doesn't mean filling a tank with water and mud and deciding not to touch it for a few years. It means that I want the water chemistry to be as close as possible to that in nature. But a tiny volume of water in a box in my house can't be expected to replicate the conditions and complex interrelated processes found in nature, not without a lot of help on my part. I don't "need" filters or aeration or artificial lighting, but I use all of them...because they help me to artificially create water conditions similar to natural ones. But the single easiest thing I do to achieve that goal is changing water.

Nitrates inevitably accumulate in aquariums; do you rely upon natural anaerobic activity to perform that last vital step in the nitrogen cycle, the denitrification of nitrate into nitrogen gas? Or do you rely upon plants? Or do you just ignore it and hope it goes away? Water changes would fix that for you...

There are also countless other waste products and materials that are being produced and excreted by the fish, and these are not easily and readily tested for by home aquarists. Do you just ignore them and hope they go away? Water changes would fix that for you...

My well water is pretty hard and somewhat alkaline...a common combination. If I topped up evaporation with it I would have stalactites encrusted on the bottom of my lid. Does FF condone the use of distilled or RO water...not very natural...or does he just ignore this issue and hope it goes away? Water changes would...you know...

I don't give a rat's behind how old a tank is; I want to know how old the fish in that tank are, how they look, how they grow and breed and behave.

FF takes ideas that have some value and carries them to silly extremes; that approach usually fails. He rails on about how "easy" his method is...so naturally he sucks in the lazy people who want to do nothing. He emphasizes how his method saves money...and thus grabs the cheapskates who want something for nothing. And of course he sells his FF supplements and snake oils and magic elixirs...'nuff said about that.

I am not a techie guy, but I assume he makes money based upon how many people click on his videos. What I have seen makes me think he is a shyster, emphasizing the points that appear to bolster his sales-pitch and conveniently ignoring the many that don't; he's mastered the art of the Slow Talking Con and plays up his grandfatherly persona and his back-to-nature approach to the fullest advantage. I just don't want to contribute to his profits, especially when I believe that his approach will cause far more harm than good in the majority of instances.

 

[Joshuakahan]

Very easy to pass judgement while self admittedly only partially watching two videos. You might not like him but calling him a chomo seems pretty childish. Furthermore if you watched any substantial amount of his videos youd realize he has heavily stocked tanks as well as lightly stocked tanks. His tanks and system are also much more than "flinging some mud from the backyard" into the tank. His methods are all based in science and do work.
Another point of contention i take is this notion that you cant run a tank without water changes. It has been done for decades by others not just fatherfish. I myself have ran 3 tanks of varying sizes and different stock levels with deep substrates without water changes for more than 6 years now with zero issues. And since switching to the father fish method the difference is night and day. It simplifies the fish keeping experience, reduces the need for extraneous equipment, and allows for beautiful planted tanks run in an easier and more natural way by creating a system that maintains itself for the most part.

Speaking so negatively and childishly about the system and man while refusing to even learn what it actually is is goofy. Step out of your own "cult" mindset and learn some. It wont hurt. And you dont have to drink the Koolaid if you dont agree in the end, but learning will only aid you in the hobby you enjoy in the end.
Watch the videos dont watch the videos, enjoy them or dont, learn from them or dont, but at least keep an open mind. Being irrationally close minded and adverse to an outside opposing idea is exactly what cults do.

Did you not see the video I used as an example? It’s creepy AF and yes, it gave me chomo vibes.
Yes, I know “no WC” tanks can work. I’ve done a couple, but should they work is another question. Most are nasty and unattractive and not viable long term for most and won’t work with all types of fish. I’d argue that a no WC is more likely to work in a reef tank than a FW