Is gravel safe for Midas?

[RD.]

As I said, it depends on the filter, fish, sand grain size, and a bunch of other factors. I have never understood why some people make definitive statements, when in this hobby almost nothing is definitive. lol

Intake length doesn't stop sand either. I've had fish grab a mouthful of sand, swim directly over an intake (with a sponge pre-filter) and drop it directly on top of the edge of the sponge. I watched them do this, while I cringed. Not always, but sometimes, a single grain or two of that mouthful of sand would find its way through the pre-filter, and bad things happened. Some of the really fine dust size sand, would flow clean through with no issue.

I personally never liked intake pre-filters, I found them to be a pain in the arse to clean (weekly) and the finer the grade of foam, the easier they plugged up, which meant cleaning more often, or reducing flow, which also seemed counter productive to me.

But again, it depends on the set up, the fish, the filters being used, etc-etc. The OP didn't provide any of that information beyond the species of fish, their main concern seemed to be with the fish choking on gravel, or blocking its digestive system - which can also happen, but IMO & IME that would be a very rare event, with this particular species, one that I have never heard of.

 

[Coryloach]

As I said, it depends on the filter, fish, sand grain size, and a bunch of other factors. I have never understood why some people make definitive statements, when in this hobby almost nothing is definitive. lol

Why can't I make definitive statements? I've had tanks with both gravel and sand...Sand for the last 8 years...As far as I am concerned, I am convinced in what I am saying.

I personally never liked intake pre-filters, I found them to be a pain in the arse to clean (weekly)

It takes me less than 5 mins to clean 3 of them. My pre-filters are a rectangular sponge with a hole in the middle to fit the intake......It fits like a glove. I take them out and clean them under running water....

Here is an old video showing the type of "prefilters" I have on my intakes, first few seconds....

 

[Coryloach]

drop it directly on top of the edge of the sponge. I watched them do this, while I cringed.

I have a small tank in which the sponge on the pre-filter is firmly sat on the sand because the tank is too shallow. I have hillstreams in it so needing the flow of the extnernal...No issues...

 

[RD.]

You are certainly welcome to say anything that you want. Including showing videos of pre-filters. lol

You are convinced about what you are saying, about your equipment, and your fish, in your set ups. That's great, but unless the OP has the same fish, filters, and set up, there's nothing definitive about your response, and his question. See the difference? Sand is best for you, and your set up, doesn't equate to sand being best for everyone. This is much along the lines of one member telling another member how large of water change is best, or what water conditioner, or how much to use is best.
Without knowing specifics, it becomes by guess or by golly.

I don't know what the OP's filtration set up is, which is why I kept my responses more generalized. I have and still do keep large Amphilophus, such as what the OP is enquiring about, so my response to that part of the question could be pretty specific. Generally speaking gravel is quite safe for midas.

 

[Coryloach]

Whether one chooses gravel or sand is up to one's preference, not disputing that. We live and learn.
Gravel, especially if a thick layer, is a pain to clean and a pathogenic bacteria medium. The motion of cleaning the gravel actually is not as harmless. When stirring the substrate one releases not just detritus but bacteria by-products such as hydrogen sulfate, ammonia, methane,etc...One can also have unnoticed mini ammonia spikes just because of cleaning the gravel for the sake of the fish. And one maybe unknowingly doing that on a weekly basis....That's a very common trigger for diatoms.....

If feeding sinking pellets, a lot will get stuck in places not easy for fish to get to, rotting...I just can't have gravel in a tank myself...

I use a thin layer of sand, unless the tank is planted, then it needs a bit more sand...

I use sponges on the intakes because the bio-logical filter media needs to be the cleanest possible. Detritus promotes anaerobic conditions and also heterotrophic bacteria, which in turn can out-compete nitrifying bacteria and archaea responsible for nitrification. Preventing the sand from going into the filter is a bonus.

 

[Coryloach]

You are certainly welcome to say anything that you want. Including showing videos of pre-filters. lol

I am showing a video of a pre-filter because you act like someone that has never seen or used one.

 

[Backfromthedead]

i actually think the sand is more of a pain to keep clean. gravel is a lot more easy to gravel vac. i lose a bunch of sand every time i clean my tanks it seems cause its so easily sucked up. i have heavy sand too.

 

[RD.]

LMAO, Cory, relax. You can use whatever you want. But stating your case over & over again doesn't make it anymore "better", or ideal, for the OP. For the exact reasons you stated, I suggested using a *thin* layer, of either. In tanks where I have gravel its is so thin that the glass shows in places, and none of what you state takes place. No lost rotting food, no hydrogen sulfate, ammonia, methane, etc being stirred up.

In my tanks large fish can see, and suck up, 1mm pellets. I'm not using 3" of gravel, or large boulders. lol

FYI, I have used numerous pre-filters, some just like yours, some with much finer foam, and I can state definitively, they will not in all cases stop all sand. Depends on the filter and flow rate, some filters such as the larger model AC's are notorious for taking in sand, even with pre-filters attached, sometimes even with short intakes. If that happens enough, it's only a matter of time that an impeller will get jammed up.

I think I'll now go pound my head against the wall, and see if that definitively causes me a headache.

To the OP, good luck with your decision.

 

[Coryloach]

LMAO, Cory, relax.

Can't. I think I am going to go and take a pill or something...

I think I'll now go pound my head against the wall, and see if that definitively causes me a headache.

I'd say it definitely will It does to me when I pound my head against the wall

 

[JAX3000]

Thanks guys!

Reading that was very informative and in some parts very entertaining...! I really appreciate your different experiences and advice.

RD, to respond to your point about my setup etc, the tank is 340 litre (90 US Galon) about 2 feet tall. I will be using two Eheim Professional 3, 2075 filters. This is the basic spec.

• For Tank litre: 600 ltr
• Pump Output: 1250 ltr
• Canister Volume: 9.2 ltr
• Delivery Head: 1.8m
• Filter Volume: 6 ltr + 0.5 (pre-filter)
• Power Consumption: 16 w
• Dimensions: 453x238x244mm

I Don't believe these filters are particularly strong, when it comes to actual flow rate. I think the published figures are without media and I'll have mine set up as it was out the box, which slows flow considerably.

Also, I will be using a short inlet hose, only half way down the tank.

I've always used sand in the past, but never kept the type of fish capable of kicking up such a mess and I hate even the thought of putting sponges over the inlets...

I will line the entire base of the tank with eggcrate as a precaution against shifting rocks damaging the glass and then a few large smooth rocks, I'd say getting on to about a foot across. I plan no other fish and no other decorations...

I actually HAVE a big bag of fairly heavy silica sand (about 1 - 2mm)...! Still can't decide whether to use that or go gravel, but I'm starting to sway towards the sand...