Is he doomed?! :(
- Thread starter philipraposo1982
- Start date
RD.
All cichlids have a.vortens in them right? So even if I nuked my tank with bleach and started over with new fish I could potentially reintroduce it the second I add a cichlid is that right?
Would my Clown loaches have what Kai has? Will it pass from them to any new fish if I wanted to keep my clowns?
No, I don't believe it would be correct to state that all cichlids carry S. vortens. Clearly this flagellate can be eradicated from a fish, and the water column. It's seems to be common, but not everywhere. I have (I believe) eradicated it successfully using various methods including Epsom salt infused food, Metronidazole in the water, and by feeding NLS Hex-Shield. Was/is it totally gone, I honestly can't say, but I have never had a reoccurrence in those tanks. Keep organics to a minimum, keep infected waste to a minimum, and even if some parasites remain a healthy fish should be able to keep the parasite payload at bay.
I wouldn't give up on that GT yet, he could easily bounce back, given some time and some TLC. As long as he is eating I wouldn't worry, just give the fish some time to rebuild his natural immune system.
I wouldn't give up on that GT yet, he could easily bounce back, given some time and some TLC. As long as he is eating I wouldn't worry, just give the fish some time to rebuild his natural immune system.
Yeah I haven't given up yet but just think what if scenario.
I would hate to lose Kai and then to only have this problem come back to a nother fish down the road.
I guess I can cross that bridge if it comes to that.
I would hate to lose Kai and then to only have this problem come back to a nother fish down the road.
I guess I can cross that bridge if it comes to that.
It may or may not. Quite often not, but I've seen both. Think of it like a scar, sometimes they heal (or partially heal), sometimes they don't. In fish it depends on various factors, certain nutrients, water mineral balance (note I say mineral balance, not necessarily the same thing as hard water or lots of minerals). Wound healing in fish is biochemically complex.
There are scientific papers on it, it's complicated. Essentially there are limited windows of opportunity for specific biochemical steps to happen at the right times for it all to work. In any case, the infection being gone doesn't depend on the scar being gone. Two different things. Many HITH victims go on to lead robust lives with much worse leftover scars than on your GT.
No, you'll be fine. The clowns won't pass it on and the best way to make sure you've cleared it out from the tank is to persevere with the same fish that had it in the first place. That's how I knew it worked for me. I had my clowns when I still dealt with hex...All has been fine for years since and many fish share the same space, including new clown loaches, and none have shown signs of hex re-curing since...
I think I mentioned it to you already, and it had completely slipped my mind earlier in this thread, but I'd suggest replacing further levamisole treatments on any fish with flubendazole, because flubendazole, metronidazole, dimetridazole, mebendazole, etc.....basically anything that ends on "zole" treats that nasty bug with many names called hexamita/spiro/HITH, etc.., just different dosages/treatment methods and all have different toxicity/side effects.
Flubendazole is by far the safest of all of them from my research, won't harm young fry.....
The advantage of flubendazole also is that it also treats round worms and tapeworms apart from parasites such as spironucleus vortens....so it would have covered the capilaria worm issue too...You may need repetitive treatment for hex, but so does a metro treatment. Flubendazole won't harm fish's liver unlike excessive metro use and has quite high overdose tolerance..I mean, generally speaking, there are so many options to treat hex...At least we do here in Europe, tons of different meds for it......Question is, does your fish still have hex? With a microscope on hand I won't approach any treatment until I confirm the fish is infected. " A hole in the head" can be caused not just by spironucleus vortens.....It could also be a dead worm tissue, e.g. remaining dead capilaria worm and what you see is the fish's immune system response trying to expel it...Similar to if you have a thorn in your finger.....
Which reminds me...levamisole, although effective against worms, can be in cases lethal if the fish is over-loaded with worms, because it kills the worms inside the fish, and if the fish is not able to expel the worms, they can die.....At least that's what I remember from the top of my head about it..., meaning it killed the capilaria worms, but it is up to the fish to expel them from their body....(levamisole is not effective against hex).Flubendazole on another hand starves the parasites/worms. Metrodinazole stops the parasite/hex from re-producing...So different meds treat in different ways....
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I agree, and I probably said it in my first post in the thread. One thing I want to mention from experience is that although that excellent conditions and minimal stress can control the disease, a fish carrying the parasite will eventually succumb to it if not treated, from as little as skipping some water changes, moving the fish to another tank, skipping some feeding, or the fish getting stressed by another fish in the tank...Any sort of stress will bring it on, and its painful to see it over, and over again...Some fish are certainly more susceptible to it than others...Cichlids are...so are livebearers...
Considering the OP has a microscope, if the "affected" tissue and fresh poop tests negative for the parasite, only then I would stop treatment....
QT new fish if this worries you, but the answer, except in certain extreme cases, is not a nuked and sterile tank. Clean, biologically balanced tanks should be the goal, not making them sterile.
All cichlids have a.vortens in them right? So even if I nuked my tank with bleach and started over with new fish I could potentially reintroduce it the second I add a cichlid is that right?
Would my Clown loaches have what Kai has? Will it pass from them to any new fish if I wanted to keep my clowns?
There's another reason not to overuse meds in addition to fish immune and digestive health and tank biological balance: Ornamental fish industry faces increasing problems with antibiotic resistance
Really, any serious fishkeeper should read the whole article, but here's another relevant excerpt among several I could post: "We don't think individuals should ever use antibiotics in a random, preventive or prophylactic method," Miller-Morgan said. "Even hobbyists can learn more about how to identify tropical fish parasites and diseases, and use antibiotics only if a bacterial disease is diagnosed."
