Is Heros Rotkeil hybrid?

BIG-G

Goliath Tigerfish
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ryansmith83 ryansmith83
 

ryansmith83

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These fish have not been officially described and no precise catch location has been provided for them. They are claimed to exist in the wild but there has been no proof shown of the fish being pulled from rivers or lakes in the wild. So until there is DNA analysis or a formal species description we do not know for sure.
 

Gajzila

Jack Dempsey
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These fish have not been officially described and no precise catch location has been provided for them. They are claimed to exist in the wild but there has been no proof shown of the fish being pulled from rivers or lakes in the wild. So until there is DNA analysis or a formal species description we do not know for sure.
Tnx!
 

neutrino

Potamotrygon
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I've heard both sides of the argument, including asking a highly respected importer. Whichever way you lean, imo Ryan's answer is a rational and fair one.
 

Theos.dad

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Reading through old threads here and ran across this one. Has there been any recent information released on this topic. I actually thought this was described species this whole time. Very Interested in knowing what others think. If this was/is a hybrid does anyone know what it is assumed to have been paired with?
 

neutrino

Potamotrygon
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No change, not yet scientifically described and some debate what they are. They're reported to be from Rio Nanay. When I look it up that's nearly 200 miles of river, with no specific spot given. It could also mean a smaller, nearby stream somewhere, and not the main river, as is the case with some other species.

Personally, while I understand the reasoning for the hybrid theory and I've remained open-minded, I consider it speculative and unproven up to now. One of the arguments is no one has seen or filmed rotkeil in the wild and some hobbyists have gone to search and not found them. This may not be entirely true, for example a friend of Jim Cummings may have collected them.

For as many who say they're a hybrid, etc. there are respected sources who so they are not. I specifically asked Jeff Rapps about this some years ago, he essentially said those who say hybrid don't know what they're talking about, don't have the connections and sources he does, and you should understand that collectors sometimes keep locations for certain fish to themselves, something I know has been true with some other fish. Oliver Lucanus recognizes rotkeil in his Heros video (link below), but doesn't actually show them in the wild-- more fodder for the hybrid theorists.

Some have said show us the fish in the wild. To this I've said show me your speculative breeding ponds. Then someone will say it's a huge area, they could be well hidden. To which I say right back at you, the same argument can be made for their wild location. And so it goes. I've kept an open mind, but it's a little like string theory in physics, a popular but speculative theory, still unproven after decades of trying, while it's been criticized by some physicists. As long as there's doubt people will fall on both sides of the question.

 
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cmsbthebest

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Looks like the wetspot has "wild caught" Rotkeils available right now. So there's that ?‍♂
 
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Milingu

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I never got the hybrid theorie. Their offspring always looks the same. Normaly you need to breed hybrids over many many generations to have offspring with a stable phenotype that does not show at least traces of the original cross.
I also talked to some people importing fish. I got to two answers. Some say they are really wild caught and others suspect they are line breed somewhere and than sold as wildcaught. Frank Warzel (r.i.p.) wrote they were caught in some small blackwater and clearwater rivers near Iquitos. Unfortunately he cannot tell us anymore where exactly from. Or if he got that information first hand during his collecting trips or if it is just a story he heard there.
 
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