Is the hobby slowly dwindling?

[Caperguy99]

I think there’s a steep learning curve and the traditional places people would think to go for advice generally provide bullshit.

You want to learn about skateboarding, you can go to a skate shop and get some good beginner advice along with your first deck. Same with most other hobbies.

Fishkeeping, though, it seems like the economic calculations are different. The big box stores expect consumers to only stick in the hobby for around 12 months and try to squeeze as much money out in that time as they can. So a parent and kids walk in to a pet store with a fish section, and walk out with some kind of insane set up sold to them by a random employee - a 6 gallon Oscar aquarium with clown puke gravel, or something.

Cue 4 months of struggle - constant tank crashes, bacterial blooms, and dying fish. Returning to the fish store just to be sold “cure alls” and water buffers that do more harm then good. Until the fish finally dies and the parent says “What a disaster” and doesn’t try again.

And it isn’t like you can Google a question and find our a good answer, either. If forums like this one weren’t around, all there’s be would be was listicle articles giving out absolutely awful advice.

It’s the only hobby I’ve ever tried where it seemed like some of the largest hobby supplier companies had staff who seemed like they were actively giving harmful advice (no need for a filter in a RTM cichlid tank, ex.)

 

[RandomAlgae]

If I remember right, because I watched both my now adult sons grow up on, and become obsessed with Pokemon as kids. This indoctrination allowed for a subconscious acceptance of people thinking the random hybridization, or deformation of species was a good thing, maybe not an overt affection, but an unconscious acceptance allowing for delegitimization of natural species, into some anime life type forms, including BPs, gaudy colored, short body and non-robust, cramped organs, health compromised hybrids.

I don't think hybrids and GMO popularity has anything to do with videogames,
I still play pokemon to this day and I much prefer wild type fishes over the domesticated/fancy ones,

Though I think my interest in oddball and monsters do play big part in what games I choose to play though, my other favorite videogames are Monster hunter series, And I am thinking of trying out Pikmin series,
So in my experience it is the otherway around.

Also fishes were bred to be ornaments all the way back even before the first electronics like Goldfish and Koi, And general public tend to gravitate toward those as oppose to wild type fishes.

I believe the reason for recent popularity of hybrids and deformed fishes are due to social-media promoting it rather than anything,
they are eye catching and tend to be recognized as a status symbol rather than an animal or subject of intrigue perfectly suited for the short video on social media,

I mean what do general public tend to prefer watching anyway ?, A long 20-60 minutes video on natural history of a fishes or a 30 seconds video about overpriced hybrids and deformed fishes that can barely survive on it's own ?

Wild type fishes are great but how would people know of their existence if they are never exposed to them ?

 

[duanes]

I agree about koi and goldfish, but....back then glass tanks were not...so the only way to actually see your fish, was if they had colors to make them stand out in (possibly murky) ponds. But these goldfish aren't hybrids and different legitimate species, the are just color variants of Carassius autratus.
Most legitimate cichlids are natuakll cammouflaged enough to hide them from predators.(including the prying eyes of humans), and this is due o thousands of year of survival of the .
Take the Herichthys carpintus below., compared to those seen in a glass box from the side, on the right

I'm not saying Pokemon directly influenced hybrid fish keeping, but.....
it allowed for the general acceptance of hybrids.
It was like subconscious propropagaanda, like fake news, or ideology.

 

[Backfromthedead]

I can only speak for where i live but with the rapid inflation we've seen theres simply less money for frivolities. Its just an expensive hobby and the average fishkeeper has less to work with these days.

I wouldnt say the hobby is dwindling per se. Changing maybe. Nano tanks are quite the rage where im at. Im seeing people who i never thought would have a tank start up small reef tanks in the past few years. Im meeting a lot more keepers who are much more open to DIY setups and equipment and experimenting with lower cost methods to go bigger and better with their tanks.

I have no problem with the hybrid market. Im always reading people here going off about "abominations" and whatnot. Funny, when nature hybridizes 2 species (literally happening all the time, for the entire history of life on this planet) we call it evolution. If anything the hybrid market is putting a lot of good work in towards alleviating the impact of our hobby on natural fisheries and the species therein.

 

[surfermike915]

My hope is that, with hopefully a better economy in the coming years from lower gas frate costs will lower thus lowering the price of the hobby. That’s just my hope. Realistic is it? Maybe not, but optimism is all we have haha.

 

[jjohnwm]

I think that, like many other things, there are aspects of the fish-keeping hobby that have perhaps dwindled, while at the same time there are others that have blossomed and expanded tremendously. It's just human nature to conveniently overlook the good while focusing on the bad.

Back in the day, if you wanted to see a wild Burmese Python, you went to Asia. If you wanted to catch wild Pterois Lionfish, you went to the Red Sea. Central or South American cichlids? Duh...you went to Central or South America! Today, you just go to Florida and there they are, along with a host of other invasives...and as a result, today there are as many restrictions and controls placed on fishkeeping as there are species of fish, or so it certainly seems.

But the banned species have not even begun to keep up with the influx of "new" species that are always being "discovered" in some odd backwater and then introduced to the hobby. I think the overall number of species to be had today is far, far greater than it was a few decades ago. Countless new SA tetras and African lake cichlids, in particular, but all groups seem to be represented by many new species. Fish can't be treated like cans of beans on a store shelf; they are largely seasonal, they can't be stockpiled to be sold off whenever someone has a whim. You buy 'em when you see 'em; and you can't look and look and look for something and then complain about the price when you finally find it. I'm as guilty of this as the next guy...I am "thrifty", which is not to say "cheap" ...so I understand the motivation.

How about fish delivered right to your door, mailbox or PO box? See it online anywhere, buy it and have it delivered. That was a gamechanger when it started to become commonplace, and certainly boosted the vitality of the hobby.

Fishkeeping is vastly easier today than it ever has been in the past; more info that is instantly accessible to anyone with a smartphone...a dizzying array of equipment to make life easier...more species...big tanks easily available...all-in-one turn-key style tanks for the mechanically inept or DIY-challenged...the list goes on and on. If the hobby, despite all these advantages, eventually dwindles...and I really don't think it's happening yet...it will be due to changing attitudes towards our relationship with the natural world. Increased urbanization has more and more kids growing up completely isolated from nature. When they don't see it, touch it and interact with it...you can't expect them to grow up with a passionate interest in it...neither in preserving it in the wild state nor bringing it into their homes.

 

[LukeOscar]

might get some flack for it as some disagreed with me the first time i brought this up. but in my opinion sub par quality fish are a large reason why the hobby is dwindling in my eyes is the lack of culling. in my area i would say at least 50% of lfs stocking is some kind of hybrid and or poorly culled batch of fish. combined with the doubling of prices over a 5 year period. i see more and more deformed fish being sold as normal. that fish makes it into circulation ends up breeding and floods the hobby with poor genetics even further. at least 50% of the oscars i see for sale have obvious deformities. i cant keep an oscar to save my life anymore. yet 20 kms away in my childhood home 15 years ago i couldnt keep them from thriving and breeding in my setups. just as an example. even online there is an influx in short body fish and they are becoming sought after. what was once a known health issue that would end up as a cull. is now a special fish some will pay more for.

 

[jjohnwm]

might get some flack for it as some disagreed with me the first time i brought this up. but in my opinion sub par quality fish are a large reason why the hobby is dwindling in my eyes is the lack of culling. in my area i would say at least 50% of lfs stocking is some kind of hybrid and or poorly culled batch of fish. combined with the doubling of prices over a 5 year period. i see more and more deformed fish being sold as normal. that fish makes it into circulation ends up breeding and floods the hobby with poor genetics even further. at least 50% of the oscars i see for sale have obvious deformities. i cant keep an oscar to save my life anymore. yet 20 kms away in my childhood home 15 years ago i couldnt keep them from thriving and breeding in my setups. just as an example. even online there is an influx in short body fish and they are becoming sought after. what was once a known health issue that would end up as a cull. is now a special fish some will pay more for.

I absolutely agree with this ^. It's not a lack of culling; it's the fact that the culls are being nurtured and sold for more than healthy normal fish that is the problem. A "quality" fish is no longer a healthy, well-formed, natural specimen; the term has come to mean a specimen that conforms to some arbitrary "standard" that was artificially created by the breeders of these monstrosities.

Eventually, some group of "anti" activists will grasp onto this issue and turn it into a selling point for their "you can't do that!" philosophy. In the past, the random willy-nilly crossbreeding of various species, or the intentional perpetuation of genetic flaws that would be quickly weeded out in nature, would have been referred to as "biologically unethical" .

Today...it's just business as usual...

 

[RD.]

The lack of culling deformities &/or weak fish in this hobby goes back several decades. In fact I can’t recall a time that it hasn't taken place. Money has always been a huge incentive to breeders. Flowerhorns are a prime example. Not judging, I’ve owned several, but longevity was never factored in to the equation. Fish are easy enough to replace, to those that can afford it. At the same time, good genetics from solid lines, or WC stock are easy enough to purchase, to those that can afford it. The hobby may be dwindling in numbers, but poor quality genetically weak fish have nothing to do with it.

 

[LukeOscar]

The lack of culling deformities &/or weak fish in this hobby goes back several decades. In fact I can’t recall a time that it hasn't taken place. Money has always been a huge incentive to breeders. Flowerhorns are a prime example. Not judging, I’ve owned several, but longevity was never factored in to the equation. Fish are easy enough to replace, to those that can afford it. At the same time, good genetics from solid lines, or WC stock are easy enough to purchase, to those that can afford it. The hobby may be dwindling in numbers, but poor quality genetically weak fish have nothing to do with it.

might be location dependent. but here in Ontario Canada. lack of culling is definitely a big factor. i use to be able to point out a deformed fish and the person working would generally remove it and in many cases ive been asked if i want to keep said fish for free. now i just get a shrug and they walk off.