Jack Dempsey cichlid

[Ace of Honey]

Hey everyone, hope you guys are having a great week!
So, I've started noticing a problem with my Jack Dempsey.... Oh boy.
I just can't seem to keep this fish happy! He is my FAVORITE! but won't let me love him lol. I just don't get how to care for this guy.

Background: my brother passed away and left me a couple different fish. He left convict cichlids which are thriving and have reproduced like crazy I have more than 200+ offsprings- those guys are fine, but if you have tips on how to make them stop reproducing I am all ears! I bring these guys up because my brother had all these fish together once upon a time... But my Dempsey was getting beat up by the larger males who were protecting their spawns.

Soo... I now have 6 tanks enough room for everyone to have space.... I sperated the Dempsey and placed him with 2 auratus, 2 johanni's, 1 Maylandia Greshakei, 1 bumblebee hybrid, and 2 labs. Everyone has tons of space, there's no aggression and yet I'm noticing they have all become less active since moving them away from the convicts, despite the convicts terrorizing them every time they bred, and I swear they bread all the time! They all are like depressed, they don't want their food, their activity is down significantly.... They aren't aggressive with one another. I just don't get it. The Dempsey is the worst of them all. Nocturnal, doesn't want anything! He stays in his black cave all day and only comes out to eat at night when no one is present. The other fish aren't as bad... They all have their favorite hiding place but they come out and swim about but they still aren't responding to food like before. I feed them hikari pellets both sinking and floating. I sometimes feed them omega 1 and blood worms. But even then they don't show the same interest, with the blood worms they will eat but not like before. They seemed like they were bullied with the convicts, pushed to one half of the tank. But they were swimming in groups and eating. Now that they're away from the convicts they're healthy, not getting pushed around but somehow even more unhappy! What the heck!

I'm also thinking about switching up their food, especially for the Dempsey, I don't know if this is the problem. The Dempsey has never been a great eater, my brother fed him guppies but since I have had him I haven't fed him guppies because he started eating the smaller convicts and I didn't exactly want him doing that. But he doesn't have that now since he's away from them.
I can always move everyone around again... Add in male convicts to their 175 ga tank? Maybe they have too much space? (I say male because they're larger whereas the females tend to be smaller and I don't want any to be food as a result of a move) Again, I just don't know.... Any ideas?

 

[Deadeye]

Mbuna naturally come from super crowded areas (loaded with more mbuna) - the activity keeps them comfortable and active. Too few fish and they tend to get more territorial and don’t leave their spots.
As for the Dempsey, they would be happy to be the only cichlid in their tank, but are also pretty skittish and get frightened easily. Having some sort of dither fish will make it more comfortable.
In the previous tank, the convicts probably had been acting as both a dither and extra cichlids for the mbuna.

You can try adding some sort of dither fish like larger bodied tetras or rainbowfish and see if that helps. Male or female convicts would work as dithers - either will get too large to be food. My Dempsey does fine with a female convict less than half his length. The one problem with cichlids as dithers is that they bring aggression and high bioloads with them.

For feeding, my Dempsey likes the hikari cichlid pellets. He’s not the best eater either.
The mbuna are primarily vegetarian, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they aren’t too interested in meaty foods.

As for the convicts, they don’t stop. I don’t think those fish ever hit saturation. Pretty much all you can do is separate out all the males from the females or get something that eats the fry as fast as they reproduce.

 

[Ace of Honey]

Mbuna naturally come from super crowded areas (loaded with more mbuna) - the activity keeps them comfortable and active. Too few fish and they tend to get more territorial and don’t leave their spots.
As for the Dempsey, they would be happy to be the only cichlid in their tank, but are also pretty skittish and get frightened easily. Having some sort of dither fish will make it more comfortable.
In the previous tank, the convicts probably had been acting as both a dither and extra cichlids for the mbuna.

You can try adding some sort of dither fish like larger bodied tetras or rainbowfish and see if that helps. Male or female convicts would work as dithers - either will get too large to be food. My Dempsey does fine with a female convict less than half his length. The one problem with cichlids as dithers is that they bring aggression and high bioloads with them.

For feeding, my Dempsey likes the hikari cichlid pellets. He’s not the best eater either.
The mbuna are primarily vegetarian, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they aren’t too interested in meaty foods.

As for the convicts, they don’t stop. I don’t think those fish ever hit saturation. Pretty much all you can do is separate out all the males from the females or get something that eats the fry as fast as they reproduce.

Thank you for the information, I was considering adding in more tank mates I just wasn't sure that was the best way to go and wanted to get some information before moving forward. I have learned -the hard way - that it's best to research first then add fish. Since I have a large number of them I'm going to try the convicts as a dither, this is my cleanest and most low maintenance tank as of now. The convicts are just so dirty! But if they brighten up it'll be worth the extra maintenance.

As for the convicts... I separated them BEFORE there were sooo many that it's an extremely huge job now. And the females FOUGHT like crazy! Aggression was above and beyond, someone was going to die! Whereas the male tank looked like a hibernating tank. They were depressed! No action! Even worse than the ones I have now. It was crazy to see this behavior in them!

 

[Deadeye]

They’re definitely a weird fish and full of personality.
I would think that since the females had to defend fry that made them more aggressive. The bachelor tank just became a bunch of them sitting around.

 

[Kayden]

Your gonna need a new tank for the Dempsey or the mbunas, they for sure should not be going together due to differences in
Aggression
Size
Parameters
Diet
And overall personality
The mbunas should be on a very high vegetable matter and algea diet. In at least a 75 gallon tank with plenty of hiding spots and hard water

dempseys do best in pairs (IMO) in at least a 125 gallon tank with relatively hard water, peaceful/semi dithers, and about a diet balanced with protein, insects, and algae.

the convicts I would say need to be in at least a 55 gallon tank, and there is no way to stop breeding unless you have all females/all males.
to get rid of the fry you could
-donate to an LFS, though I expect they will only take so many
-feed to your other fish
-a marketplace tool such as certain Facebook groups and the one on here to post direct to local fish keepers

good luck on your fish keeping journey, and you are in the right track looking for information: just keep doing research.

 

[Ace of Honey]

Your gonna need a new tank for the Dempsey or the mbunas, they for sure should not be going together due to differences in
Aggression
Size
Parameters
Diet
And overall personality
The mbunas should be on a very high vegetable matter and algea diet. In at least a 75 gallon tank with plenty of hiding spots and hard water

dempseys do best in pairs (IMO) in at least a 125 gallon tank with relatively hard water, peaceful/semi dithers, and about a diet balanced with protein, insects, and algae.

the convicts I would say need to be in at least a 55 gallon tank, and there is no way to stop breeding unless you have all females/all males.
to get rid of the fry you could
-donate to an LFS, though I expect they will only take so many
-feed to your other fish
-a marketplace tool such as certain Facebook groups and the one on here to post direct to local fish keepers

good luck on your fish keeping journey, and you are in the right track looking for information: just keep doing research.

Oh snap your post made me realize I gave the wrong size tank it's 75 gal not 175gal. Huge difference! Thank you. I was looking and reading so many different things and numbers I got mixed up when I wrote the text above. I have been wanting a second Dempsey, however when I "bought" one at a LFS, I ended up with a Maylandia Greshakei. They didn't know what they sold and I didn't know what I had bought. I have also been trying to sex the Dempsey to possibly give (him) a mate. I have a previous post where I asked for opinions regarding the sex.

I have read a mix in opinion on this matter, central vs South American/ African Cichlids sharing a tank. Some have been very successful in keeping a varied mix but others suggest keeping them separate. Most of my cichlids are from or around the Malawi region. The Dempsey doesn't fall into that category, he would technically be better with the convicts but I have listed the problems with that above. I really want to avoid setting up yet another tank especially if he would be going in alone!

 

[Sinister-Kisses]

Those that condone mixing African mbuna with Central Americans really have no idea WTF they're talking about, to put it bluntly. These are extremely different fish that should not be sharing a space, for all the reasons already noted. Anyone forcing their fish into cohabitating like this is NOT putting the best interests of said fish first, and has no idea of the difference between THRIVING and SURVIVING. Just because they aren't all dead doesn't mean they are happy and healthy - which you are literally here asking about because you're having an issue. Decide which type you want to keep and rehome the ones that don't fit.

 

[duanes]

Although, for me (as a biotope guy) I'd never combine Africans, with north Americans, the water parameters either come from are similar.
The water in the Cenotes of Mexico, is very similar to the rift lakes, in that they are both hard, and high pH.

But JDs never do well housed with other similar intensely territorial cichlids.
Even in nature, if they dominate the water body, they do well. If they don't dominate, they don't always thrive.

In the video above, JDs dominate, so their population is strong, they are healthy.
In the video below, where they share habitat with a similarly aggressive cichlid (Mayaheros uropthalmus) the JD population is small, and weak, and each individual JD is quite torn up.

And consider, that in these 2 examples the JDs are in 10s of thousand of gallons, of water and space.
In the confines of the "puddles" where we aquarists keep our cichlids, the intensity of instinctual territoriality and conditions only gets amplified.