My JD took over and had to be isolated. In my opinion, they shouldn't be kept with valuable fish.
My JD now has his own lonely 50 gallon to himself.
My JD now has his own lonely 50 gallon to himself.
Jack Dempsey vs. Salvini
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Having bred many different races/variants of salvini, I'll be the first to vouch that they CAN BE extremely aggressive once sexually mature. They are also extremely capable fighters and generally do not back down to anything. A fully grown 8 inch+ male is definately capable of taking down a 10 inch dempsey, I've had it happen on more than one occassion. Even though they're smaller than dempseys, they're much quicker and have a more powerful jaw. Add that to the well developed pseudocanine teeth and you've got quite the assault package. As far as individual aggression goes, I've had them being as peaceful as say, gold saum gts, or simply downright nasty like Red Terrors. Average aggression I've experienced from wild caught specimens would be in league with grammodes/istlantum (albeit on a smaller scale due to the smaller avg. size of the species), although they have less propensity to hunt down non-threatening fish than istlantum do; generally tend to ignore non cichlid fish that stay out of their way. This could be attributed to my observations that Istlantum prefer to patrol their territory much like an umbee would, whereas Salvini are much more retiring and prefer to hide in a cave or among vegetation within their territory, and come out only to feed or to attack cichlid-type intruders. Typical pet store representatives of the species have been slightly less aggressive on average, coming closer to urophthalmus or perhaps tetracanthus. While I've had problems keeping SINGLE adult males with other medium-large cichlids in tanks as large as 180g, I've never had a problem (outside of chasing and maybe one or 2 total casualties) keeping even breeding pairs in 90g+ planted tanks with various characins (anostomus, large crenuchus, exodon, etc.). Again, I believe that salvinis eliminate anything that's a threat to their dominance, but generally leave others unmolested. A quick example; I had a male salvini at around 4 inches, was growing him out in a 55 for breeding, purchased a little male convict (~2 inches) in there with him if he ever wanted to chase something around. The convict, being a faster growing cichlid, quickly hit 4 inches before he hit 5 inches, and suddenly wound up beaten dead one night. I attempted to add another 2 inch convict and a 4.5 inch convict to the tank a week later. He quickly assaulted the bigger convict and beat him into a corner and generally harrassed him; he had to be removed within 15 minutes. The smaller convict was left mostly unmolested and was kept in there with the male for a while until I removed it for fear that the salvini would one day kill it. I've had similar experiences with other specimens.
When breeding, all bets are off and even the most peaceful specimens can turn into killers. I've had a 3.5 inch male and a 3 inch female claim an entire 90g and have all other similar sized c.a. cichlid tankmates killed overnight. Like istlantum and grammodes, they are extremely flexible giving them an advantage in defending against larger, slower cichlids like dempseys. When my smaller specimens would attempt to lock up with other cichlids and realize that they lack the size to beat them head on, you quickly see them employ mbuna like tactics, smashing the flanks in tight carouselle-type circles. One of the few american cichlids I've seen out-manouever Melanochromis Chipokae. Actually, almost every central american I tried as dither/target fish ended up dead, even the oh-so-durable convicts; M. Chipokae were what I used to ensure the male didn't kill the female with unstable pairs. I had reservations about attempting this, as I tried using 3x 4-ish inch male chipokae as targets with a pair of 6 inch midas cichlids, only to find the midas pair partially descaled the next morning and cowering at the surface, while the chipokae were flying around the tank hammering at each other for dominance.
Most salvini can be kept individually with a few smaller tankmates in a 75g+. Until you hit the 125ish range, ensure that tankmates are quite a bit smaller and definately submissive - a typical large male salvini will simply not tolerate another fish that could be a threat to it's dominance. Large breeding pairs are best kept solitary in tanks under 90g, although mid sized characins can be tried. I personally wouldn't house a fully grown breeding pair (~9 inch male, 5 inch female) with other central or south american cichlids in anything less than 125g. Melanochromis Chipokae of similar size can be tried, although they are gutsy and quick enough to pick off free-swimming fry, so I would remove them from the tank after the eggs hatch.
When breeding, all bets are off and even the most peaceful specimens can turn into killers. I've had a 3.5 inch male and a 3 inch female claim an entire 90g and have all other similar sized c.a. cichlid tankmates killed overnight. Like istlantum and grammodes, they are extremely flexible giving them an advantage in defending against larger, slower cichlids like dempseys. When my smaller specimens would attempt to lock up with other cichlids and realize that they lack the size to beat them head on, you quickly see them employ mbuna like tactics, smashing the flanks in tight carouselle-type circles. One of the few american cichlids I've seen out-manouever Melanochromis Chipokae. Actually, almost every central american I tried as dither/target fish ended up dead, even the oh-so-durable convicts; M. Chipokae were what I used to ensure the male didn't kill the female with unstable pairs. I had reservations about attempting this, as I tried using 3x 4-ish inch male chipokae as targets with a pair of 6 inch midas cichlids, only to find the midas pair partially descaled the next morning and cowering at the surface, while the chipokae were flying around the tank hammering at each other for dominance.
Most salvini can be kept individually with a few smaller tankmates in a 75g+. Until you hit the 125ish range, ensure that tankmates are quite a bit smaller and definately submissive - a typical large male salvini will simply not tolerate another fish that could be a threat to it's dominance. Large breeding pairs are best kept solitary in tanks under 90g, although mid sized characins can be tried. I personally wouldn't house a fully grown breeding pair (~9 inch male, 5 inch female) with other central or south american cichlids in anything less than 125g. Melanochromis Chipokae of similar size can be tried, although they are gutsy and quick enough to pick off free-swimming fry, so I would remove them from the tank after the eggs hatch.
Sounds like you have a lotta experience with salvini. It also sound like you've had alot of dead fish because of them. My particular salvini are'nt that bad at all, as compared to the ones your talking about. I do believe that they are excellent community cichlids with great color. I also dont think a 125 is necessary unless they get to the 8-9" range like the super salvini you have seen. My current sal are 5" male and 3.5" female, my other inhabitants are'nt much further behind as far as size is conscerned, except my jd he's pushin an inch almost every week or 2. Dont get me wrong though, a 125 g. would be nice.
They do get about 9-10 inches for males but that's if fed good while young they grow slow. I've only had one salvinii & she was ok. I've kept plenty of octofasiatus(dempseys) & they had a range of temperments. You should be ok with the group you have if rtaised together they already have their pecking order.
Yea, I know it might be possible for them to reach up to 8", but I thought that was only in the wild. Honestly this sal I own is my first male, I've had 3 female salvini before him and they only grew to about 3-4", I just cant believe that they can get to be as large as a jack, thats all. 9-10" thats just crazy! I would really like to see one that large.
