Those chunks are actual pup parts if I look close. Just been dead inside long time. When ever I seen my rays breed the male pumps out stuff but it's usually stringy and pieces .
Keep it CLEAN!!
- Thread starter aquaman45
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Lol !
I must have a lot of dead pups then Matt. Happens regular from all my females either the same day a few hours after copulation or the second day. The stringy bits bits as you call them is something you see straight after copulation, the plug however stays in the female for a number of hours before being expelled, generally this plug is never found as the other rays eat it immediately, I have been lucky enough on occasion to be there as it was ejected so removed it. Its a sperm plug...trust me!!! .....I think I know the difference!
I must have a lot of dead pups then Matt. Happens regular from all my females either the same day a few hours after copulation or the second day. The stringy bits bits as you call them is something you see straight after copulation, the plug however stays in the female for a number of hours before being expelled, generally this plug is never found as the other rays eat it immediately, I have been lucky enough on occasion to be there as it was ejected so removed it. Its a sperm plug...trust me!!! .....I think I know the difference!
Yah I'm sure you do Richard. I wasn't doubting that. Is it a regular occurrence to find huge plugs like this in your tanks ?I'm just saying around pup time usually a few days after or the next day after birth they release a few parts like these that if you look close look like squid or sometimes you can even see the head and make out parts. And as previously mentioned some of the stuff I find is after birth .The other fish also have no problem eating these parts I've seen my plecos munching it so lots of the time it's never seen. I've never seen a huge plug but I have seen chunks of sperm not nearly as big as what's in your hand. Usually stringy and milky when I see them actually pumping the female.
If stuff that big is coming out of your females days after they are breeding Richard I'd bet it's not a plug. I've seen people talking about these sperm plugs for years on this forum. I'm pretty sure that term comes from reptile keeping and other animals they use a plug after they have ejaculated into the female to hold the sperm in long enough to get the job done. A quick Google search will reveal only people talking about plugs in rays are on forums. A lot of people who keep rays keep reptiles and I'm sure at some point somebody said something.
The term sperm plug is not used in sharks either. Ive seen what looks like a blob or mass followed by many small parts but never seen a plug to hold this in. Usually after they breed sperm leaks out of the female. A plug would stop that! There is no doubt that some stuff would leak out when or if a plug was deposited but seeing parts almost as big as half a pup days after breeding seems like maybe she is just getting ready for the next batch. Just my thought.
Most of the time rays breed right after they give birth which would not give the female much time to release any afterbirth or failed pups. I know if given opportunity my male will breed right after she births and I do remember seeing parts like what you have in you hand in the tank. It's just a thought on what I've seen and observed over the last years. May not be correct but it's interesting
If stuff that big is coming out of your females days after they are breeding Richard I'd bet it's not a plug. I've seen people talking about these sperm plugs for years on this forum. I'm pretty sure that term comes from reptile keeping and other animals they use a plug after they have ejaculated into the female to hold the sperm in long enough to get the job done. A quick Google search will reveal only people talking about plugs in rays are on forums. A lot of people who keep rays keep reptiles and I'm sure at some point somebody said something.
The term sperm plug is not used in sharks either. Ive seen what looks like a blob or mass followed by many small parts but never seen a plug to hold this in. Usually after they breed sperm leaks out of the female. A plug would stop that! There is no doubt that some stuff would leak out when or if a plug was deposited but seeing parts almost as big as half a pup days after breeding seems like maybe she is just getting ready for the next batch. Just my thought.
Most of the time rays breed right after they give birth which would not give the female much time to release any afterbirth or failed pups. I know if given opportunity my male will breed right after she births and I do remember seeing parts like what you have in you hand in the tank. It's just a thought on what I've seen and observed over the last years. May not be correct but it's interesting
Hello Matt,
To answer your first question. Yes I find these plugs regularly in my tanks soon after copulation, either the same evening or the day after, the only difference with this particular time was the size of it, it was exactly the same colour, consistency and dare I say it was odorless ......yes I stuck my nose on it! Stingray sperm has no smell.
In many peoples systems they go with the bare bottom option, because of this any plug( call it what you like, I call it a plug) will quickly be detected and taken in the mouth, much of which will be ingested the rest becoming water born showing as small white pieces/ particles floating in the tank. I use a fairly large gravel albeit smooth which holds it to the bottom for longer plus some quite intricate drift wood pieces that often catch largish pieces up to 1" diameter or more. Given the amount of tanks and rays I keep and breed the chances are far greater for me to come across these things more than anyone with a single large tank, in many cases one with numerous other fish in also, fish love it, they eat like we eat ice cream! hence the reason its not often found in its larger more solid state.
To answer another one of your questions. The term plug is used with both fish and reptiles, certainly by hobbyists . I have kept and bred many reptiles throughout my life also, from relatively common stuff to the more specialist inc Rhino iguanas (Cyclura sp) and many Monitor lizard species (varanus), sadly I never got past the egg stage with these Lizards but I certainly witnessed plenty of sperm plugs along the way. The plug is nothing more than a byproduct, a carrier of the sperm which once it has done its job is simple ejected. Come on how many of you reading this have seen a large white blob hanging from the cloaca (vent) of your females? some have described it as cheese as well as other things, I have seen it hundreds of times on this forum, it usually comes out in 3 or 4 sizable pieces, however when your female is 22" across her disc everything comes out bigger!
The stringy deposits seen floating around the aquarium is something most people see, this is normally coupled with a slight milky appearance of the water, if you do see this then its a pretty good sign the male has very recently done the deed or if not has just missed the spot due to his inexperience with the ladies, normally he will hit the spot within 24 hours or there about's with his second attempt.
Matt your not wrong in your thought of what you "think"you saw from the photo, large masses such as this could easily be mistaken for undeveloped embryo's etc, god I have had a few of those in my hand too over the years, if I there were any doubt in my mind as to what this white creamy substance was I would have asked the guys on this forum if they had seen this before, I've been in the fish game for many many years now but believe you me, I'm not too proud to ask questions, new things keep cropping up to challenge us as aquarists, he or she that thinks they know it all has no place on forums like this one, learning new things makes our hobby beautiful!
I wish you all "very" happy new year.
To answer your first question. Yes I find these plugs regularly in my tanks soon after copulation, either the same evening or the day after, the only difference with this particular time was the size of it, it was exactly the same colour, consistency and dare I say it was odorless ......yes I stuck my nose on it! Stingray sperm has no smell.
In many peoples systems they go with the bare bottom option, because of this any plug( call it what you like, I call it a plug) will quickly be detected and taken in the mouth, much of which will be ingested the rest becoming water born showing as small white pieces/ particles floating in the tank. I use a fairly large gravel albeit smooth which holds it to the bottom for longer plus some quite intricate drift wood pieces that often catch largish pieces up to 1" diameter or more. Given the amount of tanks and rays I keep and breed the chances are far greater for me to come across these things more than anyone with a single large tank, in many cases one with numerous other fish in also, fish love it, they eat like we eat ice cream! hence the reason its not often found in its larger more solid state.
To answer another one of your questions. The term plug is used with both fish and reptiles, certainly by hobbyists . I have kept and bred many reptiles throughout my life also, from relatively common stuff to the more specialist inc Rhino iguanas (Cyclura sp) and many Monitor lizard species (varanus), sadly I never got past the egg stage with these Lizards but I certainly witnessed plenty of sperm plugs along the way. The plug is nothing more than a byproduct, a carrier of the sperm which once it has done its job is simple ejected. Come on how many of you reading this have seen a large white blob hanging from the cloaca (vent) of your females? some have described it as cheese as well as other things, I have seen it hundreds of times on this forum, it usually comes out in 3 or 4 sizable pieces, however when your female is 22" across her disc everything comes out bigger!
The stringy deposits seen floating around the aquarium is something most people see, this is normally coupled with a slight milky appearance of the water, if you do see this then its a pretty good sign the male has very recently done the deed or if not has just missed the spot due to his inexperience with the ladies, normally he will hit the spot within 24 hours or there about's with his second attempt.
Matt your not wrong in your thought of what you "think"you saw from the photo, large masses such as this could easily be mistaken for undeveloped embryo's etc, god I have had a few of those in my hand too over the years, if I there were any doubt in my mind as to what this white creamy substance was I would have asked the guys on this forum if they had seen this before, I've been in the fish game for many many years now but believe you me, I'm not too proud to ask questions, new things keep cropping up to challenge us as aquarists, he or she that thinks they know it all has no place on forums like this one, learning new things makes our hobby beautiful!
I wish you all "very" happy new year.
I very often find the sperm plugs ejected by the female the day after breeding. Some very large like the one posted. Ive never seen my rays eat it though lol i always have to scoop it out with a net
I just think parts that big are possibly parts of afterbirth or undeveloped pups. Usually rays breed minutes after or hours after birthing.
When I don't have males present afterbirth I find chunks very similar to what Richard has in hand in this pic.Sometimes the day of the pups sometimes few days after. And there not even be a male present in the tanks as I rest the females for a few weeks.
It just seems to large for a plug or bullet. I think your ray had one big pup than possibly bred right after and this part came out of her. I don't think a big thin flat peice is a plug. I've seen what your speaking of in my rays it's usually a blob . Just a thought Richard. Was this piece found from the henlei that had one single pup ?
When I don't have males present afterbirth I find chunks very similar to what Richard has in hand in this pic.Sometimes the day of the pups sometimes few days after. And there not even be a male present in the tanks as I rest the females for a few weeks.
It just seems to large for a plug or bullet. I think your ray had one big pup than possibly bred right after and this part came out of her. I don't think a big thin flat peice is a plug. I've seen what your speaking of in my rays it's usually a blob . Just a thought Richard. Was this piece found from the henlei that had one single pup ?
I forgot I made a video of it 3-4 years ago. My boesemani female was pregnant alone in my pond and gave birth to many parts like these. She was intact 100% pregnant she was alone in the pond and I could make out parts but it mostly looked like squid or mushed up flat masses that could easily be mistaken for plugs. This could easily be hanging out of any mother Ray that has just been breed also usually like I said they do it soon after so it's highly possible lots of the white stuff you guys see come out of your rays isn't a sperm plug and is this afterbirth or failure pups or eggs what ever it is.
There isn't many different things I haven't tried to make the whole breeding thing more comfortable and efficient for both the males and females regarding reproduction, splitting the males and females is one of them, something I never do now but that's another story. I have never had a female eject this substance without a male present...never! I don't know how old that video is Matt but is it possible you might have forgotten the exact details, found some pups and quickly removed either the male or female thinking the male didn't do the deed, I know you said there were no males present but I'm just struggling with this.
I think the best thing to do here is let people make up their own minds or better still give us some examples of their experiences.
I never in my wildest dreams expected such a debate ...lol!
By the way my female hen never has more than 1 or 2 pups at a time, they are always big and there is always a plug, same with the hystrix, mini Marbles, Pearls, leopoldi, Venezuelan Marbles....regardless of how many pups they have.
We will never agree on this and I'm certainly not going to get into a heated debate over it either Matt, we may live a long distant apart but we are friends after all.
All the best to you and your family.
I think the best thing to do here is let people make up their own minds or better still give us some examples of their experiences.
I never in my wildest dreams expected such a debate ...lol!
By the way my female hen never has more than 1 or 2 pups at a time, they are always big and there is always a plug, same with the hystrix, mini Marbles, Pearls, leopoldi, Venezuelan Marbles....regardless of how many pups they have.
We will never agree on this and I'm certainly not going to get into a heated debate over it either Matt, we may live a long distant apart but we are friends after all.
All the best to you and your family.
