Lots of syno hybrids from the Czech Republic etc out there now too, and many vendors won't know the difference. Caveat emptor.
Keeping Rift Lake Cichlids In Community Tanks
- Thread starter Supergeorge123
- Start date
I like variety. Keeping an all Malawian cichlid tank is boring to me because there is lack of diversity of color, shape and breeding behavior. Boring is a subjective opinion as there are no lack of hobbyists who enjoy keeping one type of fish.
Lack of diversity is not an opinion but a geologic and genetic fact. Lake Malawi is a young lake, between 1 to 2 million year old, younger than the first Hominin species Lucy walked the earth 3 million year ago, and all Malawian cichlid are decendent from one lineage, Haplochromine.
Lake Victoria fish has even less diversity. The lake is less than 400,000 year old, all decendent from a single riverine haplochromine that looks like current day Egyptian mouthbrooder.
Lake Tanganyikan is the oldest African Lake, between 9 to 12 million year old, and cichlid there are from multiple lineage with great diversity.
I learned these facts from one of my first cichlid books by Dr. Paul Louselle when I set up my first Mbuna tank in 1979. I am seeing Paul Luselle about every month in my North Jersey Fish Club.
Malawian cichlid mating is violent and raping is common in captivity. Raping is defined as forced mating. In the wild, male will stack up a territory to entice female to mate. Females have the choice and can swim away if she is not ready or doesn't like the male. The reason why there is strong sexual dimorphism in polygamous mouthbrooders is sexual selection. Females are choosy and pick the most colorful males to mate with. On the other hand, males aren't choosy and will attempt to mate with every willing female. In captivity, females can't escape, can't choose, and are often raped or else killed. Even males get raped by dominant males. The reason cross breeding is rampant in captivity is because females can't choose, subordinant males can't breed, and dominant males attempt to mate with every female.
Lack of diversity is not an opinion but a geologic and genetic fact. Lake Malawi is a young lake, between 1 to 2 million year old, younger than the first Hominin species Lucy walked the earth 3 million year ago, and all Malawian cichlid are decendent from one lineage, Haplochromine.
Lake Victoria fish has even less diversity. The lake is less than 400,000 year old, all decendent from a single riverine haplochromine that looks like current day Egyptian mouthbrooder.
Lake Tanganyikan is the oldest African Lake, between 9 to 12 million year old, and cichlid there are from multiple lineage with great diversity.
I learned these facts from one of my first cichlid books by Dr. Paul Louselle when I set up my first Mbuna tank in 1979. I am seeing Paul Luselle about every month in my North Jersey Fish Club.
Malawian cichlid mating is violent and raping is common in captivity. Raping is defined as forced mating. In the wild, male will stack up a territory to entice female to mate. Females have the choice and can swim away if she is not ready or doesn't like the male. The reason why there is strong sexual dimorphism in polygamous mouthbrooders is sexual selection. Females are choosy and pick the most colorful males to mate with. On the other hand, males aren't choosy and will attempt to mate with every willing female. In captivity, females can't escape, can't choose, and are often raped or else killed. Even males get raped by dominant males. The reason cross breeding is rampant in captivity is because females can't choose, subordinant males can't breed, and dominant males attempt to mate with every female.
Yes Tiger, we all got that you like variety by your initial comment. Constantly repeating that, or defending your position is not necessary. I don't lack reading comprehension skills. That's not at all what I was discussing, which was your comment about all the fish in Malawi being blue. That, and using the term rape to describe fish spawning.
I can't even believe that I have to explain this, but I guess I will help educate you so that you don't repeat this ignorance any further.
With regards to rape - in the vast majority of dictionaries I believe that you will find that term is used to describe a form of sexual assault, among humans - NOT fish. In legal terms it includes a lack of consent on the part of the victim, obviously with female fish, we cannot possibly know what is forced, and what is not. I have never once seen a male African cichlid, force himself on a female, and force her to lay eggs. Female fish produce eggs in their body for the sole purpose of spawning. No eggs, no spawning activity. In some species of animals (primates, insects, birds) the term "forced copulation" could apply, but NOT rape.
Hopefully no one that has ever experienced sexual assault, such as rape, or has a family member that has, or a friend etc, reads your idiotic comment.
And I have the same book/s, and it's Dr. Loiselle, not Louselle.
RD out
I can't even believe that I have to explain this, but I guess I will help educate you so that you don't repeat this ignorance any further.
With regards to rape - in the vast majority of dictionaries I believe that you will find that term is used to describe a form of sexual assault, among humans - NOT fish. In legal terms it includes a lack of consent on the part of the victim, obviously with female fish, we cannot possibly know what is forced, and what is not. I have never once seen a male African cichlid, force himself on a female, and force her to lay eggs. Female fish produce eggs in their body for the sole purpose of spawning. No eggs, no spawning activity. In some species of animals (primates, insects, birds) the term "forced copulation" could apply, but NOT rape.
Hopefully no one that has ever experienced sexual assault, such as rape, or has a family member that has, or a friend etc, reads your idiotic comment.
And I have the same book/s, and it's Dr. Loiselle, not Louselle.
RD out
True, Biologists do not use the term rape but forced copulation instead, but is otherwise identical. Rape is not a human specialty, but occurs commonly among Chimp, primates, some mammals, birds, fish and insect. Rape does not necessarily result in reproduction. Malawian males often force unwilling females, including submissive males, to mate without depositing eggs. Since 95% of birds have no penis, male birds cannot forcefully impregnate female by forced copulation.
There is coverage of rape charge in the media all day long on supreme court judge confirmation, and I can't even get away in fish chat, LOL.
I used to keep life bearers, I don't recall females ever consent to mating by staying still and invite males to penetrate. Female livebearers are getting rapped constantly, often gang raped by a line of horny males.
Just curious why birds cannot get pregnant from rape.
I used to keep life bearers, I don't recall females ever consent to mating by staying still and invite males to penetrate. Female livebearers are getting rapped constantly, often gang raped by a line of horny males.
Just curious why birds cannot get pregnant from rape.
Not too sure how this went from Rift Lake cichlids, to livebearers, but for those that don't understand the mating rituals of livebearers, allow me to elaborate on that subject. The sources are credible, certainly more so than what one reads on MFK lately. lol
Poeciliids show considerable differences in mating behavior (Farr, 1989; Bisazza, 1993). Some species, such as mosquitofish, exhibit sneak copulations exclusively, without any form of courtship (Bisazza and Pilastro, 1997; Pilastro et al., 1997). Other species, such as guppies, exhibit both sneak copulations and courtship behavior, and the decision to rely on one of these tactics is often context-dependent (Houde, 1997; Ojanguren and Magurran, 2004; Gasparini et al., 2013; Locatello et al., 2015) and related to the male's phenotype (Magellan et al., 2005) or genital morphology (Evans et al., 2011; Gasparini et al., 2011). Finally, species like the green swordtail (X. hellerii) exhibit few or no sneak copulations and mainly rely on courtship (Ryan and Causey, 1989).
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.01453/full
In general, male live-bearing fish can use two contrasting reproductive strategies: courting and coercing. Courters are flashy males with colorful scales and large fins to attract cooperating females. Coercers are less conspicuous males that use attack matings to reproduce with as many females as possible. Evolution of male body shape particularly affects traits associated with these different mating strategies.
Male live-bearing fish are evolving faster than female fish, according to a Kansas State University study, and that's important for understanding big-picture evolutionary patterns.
Researchers Michael Tobler, associate professor of biology, and Zach Culumber, former university postdoctoral research associate and current postdoctoral researcher at Florida State University, studied 112 species of live-bearing fish and found that males and females evolve differently: Female evolution is influenced more strongly by natural selection and the environment, while male evolution is influenced more strongly by sexual selection, which involves characteristics that females find desirable or that make them superior competitors for females. Tobler and Culumber published their findings in the Nature Ecology and Evolution journal article, "Sex-specific evolution during the diversification of live-bearing fishes."
Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-07-tale-fishes-biologists-male-female.html#jCp
IMO referring to these breeding strategies in a fish, as rape, or gang rape, is about as intelligent, and thoughtless, as someone referring to all Asian people as Chinese.
Poeciliids show considerable differences in mating behavior (Farr, 1989; Bisazza, 1993). Some species, such as mosquitofish, exhibit sneak copulations exclusively, without any form of courtship (Bisazza and Pilastro, 1997; Pilastro et al., 1997). Other species, such as guppies, exhibit both sneak copulations and courtship behavior, and the decision to rely on one of these tactics is often context-dependent (Houde, 1997; Ojanguren and Magurran, 2004; Gasparini et al., 2013; Locatello et al., 2015) and related to the male's phenotype (Magellan et al., 2005) or genital morphology (Evans et al., 2011; Gasparini et al., 2011). Finally, species like the green swordtail (X. hellerii) exhibit few or no sneak copulations and mainly rely on courtship (Ryan and Causey, 1989).
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2015.01453/full
In general, male live-bearing fish can use two contrasting reproductive strategies: courting and coercing. Courters are flashy males with colorful scales and large fins to attract cooperating females. Coercers are less conspicuous males that use attack matings to reproduce with as many females as possible. Evolution of male body shape particularly affects traits associated with these different mating strategies.
Male live-bearing fish are evolving faster than female fish, according to a Kansas State University study, and that's important for understanding big-picture evolutionary patterns.
Researchers Michael Tobler, associate professor of biology, and Zach Culumber, former university postdoctoral research associate and current postdoctoral researcher at Florida State University, studied 112 species of live-bearing fish and found that males and females evolve differently: Female evolution is influenced more strongly by natural selection and the environment, while male evolution is influenced more strongly by sexual selection, which involves characteristics that females find desirable or that make them superior competitors for females. Tobler and Culumber published their findings in the Nature Ecology and Evolution journal article, "Sex-specific evolution during the diversification of live-bearing fishes."
Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-07-tale-fishes-biologists-male-female.html#jCp
IMO referring to these breeding strategies in a fish, as rape, or gang rape, is about as intelligent, and thoughtless, as someone referring to all Asian people as Chinese.
Polygamous live bearers and mouthbrooders get raped frequently in captivity, but rarely in the wild. Non consenting females have the choice to swim away. Females are choosy. Only handsome males get the girls, and they must dance hard to advertise themselves. Through sexual selection by females, males show strong sexual dimorphism.
Rape also occur in polygamous birds such as pheasants and water fowl in captivity, but seldom in the wild because non consenting females can just fly away. Farmers can tell you how violent and noisy chicken and duck sex are.
Monogamous pair bonding fish and birds have weak sexual dimorphism, and mating is always consensual.
Birds cannot impregnate females by force. Birds mate by cloaca (vent) kissing. Non consenting females can close off the cloaca and the males shoot at closed door. The only exception are the 5% birds that have penis, that include all water fowl and ostrich family birds.
Rape also occur in polygamous birds such as pheasants and water fowl in captivity, but seldom in the wild because non consenting females can just fly away. Farmers can tell you how violent and noisy chicken and duck sex are.
Monogamous pair bonding fish and birds have weak sexual dimorphism, and mating is always consensual.
Birds cannot impregnate females by force. Birds mate by cloaca (vent) kissing. Non consenting females can close off the cloaca and the males shoot at closed door. The only exception are the 5% birds that have penis, that include all water fowl and ostrich family birds.
In the aquatic justice system, sexually based offenses are considered especially heinous. In the aquarium world, the dedicated detectives who investigate these vicious felonies belong to an elite squad known as the special viviparous unit. These are there stories.
Duh duh!
Duh duh!
