labeled "mudpuppy" at lfs

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Remember that there is more than one kind of tiger salamander, and also that this fellow has been living in poor circumstances. He is definitely a tiger. One character that immediately tells you it is not a true mudpuppy (Necturus) is that it has five toes on the hind feet; mudpuppies have only four. The body shape and proportions are also very different in mudpuppies.

In addition to all that, mudpuppies are extremely unlikely to be found as stowaways in a pet shop koi tank. They live in large streams and lakes; the only way they would get into a koi pond is if it was filled with water pumped from a body of water where they live, and some were sucked through the pump and survived. Even if this happened, they would probably not do well in the relatively warm water of a koi pond.

Tiger salamanders, on the other hand, are typical inhabitants of ponds in much of the US, and the terrestrial adults may find new ponds and lay eggs in them soon after the pond is constructed. Also, they are raised commercially for fish bait; possibly the koi hatchery also raises tiger salamanders and got some stock in the wrong pond.

I hope that helps!
 
Noto said:
Remember that there is more than one kind of tiger salamander, and also that this fellow has been living in poor circumstances. He is definitely a tiger. One character that immediately tells you it is not a true mudpuppy (Necturus) is that it has five toes on the hind feet; mudpuppies have only four. The body shape and proportions are also very different in mudpuppies.

In addition to all that, mudpuppies are extremely unlikely to be found as stowaways in a pet shop koi tank. They live in large streams and lakes; the only way they would get into a koi pond is if it was filled with water pumped from a body of water where they live, and some were sucked through the pump and survived. Even if this happened, they would probably not do well in the relatively warm water of a koi pond.

Tiger salamanders, on the other hand, are typical inhabitants of ponds in much of the US, and the terrestrial adults may find new ponds and lay eggs in them soon after the pond is constructed. Also, they are raised commercially for fish bait; possibly the koi hatchery also raises tiger salamanders and got some stock in the wrong pond.

I hope that helps!
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the specimen looks to have different number of toes..In first photo the rear foot appears to only have 4 toes..

and as to something else you stated...We all know that Pet stores would never place a species in the wrong type of environment. And I wonder how it got Labeled if it was just a Random wild species.
 
The number of toes is easy to count in the third photo. I wish I had a camera handy, I could show you specimens of both species side by side. They are really quite different.

I don't think you're getting my point about the animal being mixed in with koi. There's no reason the pet store would have a Necturus in the first place- they aren't really in the pet trade and there's no easy route for one to get mixed in with koi prior to arriving at the pet store. Tiger salamanders, on the other hand, are in the pet and aquaculture trades, and wild ones are liable to colonize koi ponds. None of this really matters for IDing this specimen, as the physical characteristics are enough for a positive ID as a species in the Ambystoma tigrinum complex. I'm just trying to point out that it is very unlikely for anyone to find a Necturus in this situation.

As for labels- pet stores often mislabel things, either because they don't know what it is or they want to make it sound more appealing. And common names are always tricky, because they are inconsistent. Some people use "mudpuppy" or "waterdog" to refer to Ambystoma larvae, knowing full well that they are not the same as Necturus. Where I grew up, people referred to skinks as "scorpions" and cicadas as "locusts" or "dryflies". There are hundreds of other examples.
 
Noto said:
I don't think you're getting my point about the animal being mixed in with koi. There's no reason the pet store would have a Necturus in the first place- they aren't really in the pet trade and there's no easy route for one to get mixed in with koi prior to arriving at the pet store. Tiger salamanders, on the other hand, are in the pet and aquaculture trades, and wild ones are liable to colonize koi ponds. None of this really matters for IDing this specimen, as the physical characteristics are enough for a positive ID as a species in the Ambystoma tigrinum complex. I'm just trying to point out that it is very unlikely for anyone to find a Necturus in this situation.
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Myself I find it easy to believe..My so Called Expert Petshop locally owned and not corporate owned has Mudpuppies in fish tanks. They also have Tiger Frog Tadpoles and Bull Frog.. They are kept inside aquariums with Koi and Goldfish. One of the reasons I am starting a small business on my own. They specialize in fish and birds and highly over price their animals. They were selling a Golden Gecko as a "morph" of Leopard gecko for $89. They also sell commom Red Tail Boas for $189

Maybe the Original poster can clear up somethings better such as was it an outside Koi pond or inside? I would find it hard to believe that a wild specimen would take up residence in an indoor pond. Even outside I find it hard to believe that a store would label a specimen that they might not have even known was there. Did they see the specimen in the pond and ask what it was or was it really Labeled?

I ain't disputing your ID. The number of toes does appear different in other shots..Could be missing a Toe on the Right rear foot as clearly on the other foot in another picture you can see 5 on the left rear
 
I thought Tigers and Axo's are pretty close to the same thing. They're both tigers, just the Axo's don't ever morph into adulthood. When scientists forced an Axo to morph, it turned into a tiger.
 
I do believe the OP said that this fella was a SPECIAL ORDER that someone didn't bother coming in to pick up. I'm assuming this means that the salamander was not accidentally scooped up with the koi, but instead was tossed in there when the person who ordered it, didn't want it afterall. So what it's housed with has NO BEARING on what species the poor fella is.
 
You dont need "science" to know what an axolotl will morph into. Go to caudata.org and you will see some useful info. A lot of people have seen their axolotls morph but only under very stressful conditions. When they did morph, in most cases they just lost their gill and no other visual characteristic were shown.

In 99% of cases, if your axolotl morphs, its because it was not a axolotl or you had it under very bad conditions.

I am not really an expert on this particular subject but I have kept axolotls. The picture looks like some sort of juvi form of a salamander or a extremely stressed axolotl. I know it doesnt really help but my 2 cents =D .
 
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