Lacerdae hoplias ID?

[DB junkie]

If that's a lac on the left, then there's a gold mine sitting at my LFS

Here's the million dollar question---- How old/big do they have to be before this jawline thing is 100%????

On a side note I'm looking at a tank that has THREE "Lacerdaes" in it. 2 different sources, 3 different species. Lots of money spent. Based on the jaw line on these 3 maybe 4"ers I've got a tank full of Malas. That's true and I'm 100% DONE buying wolves from anyone......

I went down and had a look at the big guys and it's very obvious on the 16-17" Aimara and 20" Lac. Seems like it must become a lot more obvious the older they are..........

 

[moe214]

Yea cause it seems when they're smaller it seems it even touches. Maybe the next time a small lac is in if the owner can, keep an eye on that and see when it's obvious. And you can't be done, you're tank is one of the best. And you've helped a lot. You've become very informative and knowledgeable. And I'm assuming the jaw line is obvious correct? Which is it the one on the right, right?

 

[shookONES]

@DB I'm feeling the same as you. Lacerdae is one of my dream fish but I'm not confident enough to pull the trigger on a juvie that I'm not 100% confident in. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[DB junkie]

@DB I'm feeling the same as you. Lacerdae is one of my dream fish but I'm not confident enough to pull the trigger on a juvie that I'm not 100% confident in. I hope I'm wrong.

Couldn't agree more. The big one I have is probably my favorite fish. I can't help but think they seem to have a different head shape. Even in these little guys I swear I see 2 different head shapes and they seem to match the different jaw lines. Also appears 2 have a higher arch in their back.

These "Lacs" were a lot easier to justify then the "big head Dorado"...... lol Can't think of a better guy to put my faith into then Wes. He seems to enjoy the venture of discovering what stuff is along with us instead of arrogant vendors that don't even bother correctly IDing what they have but rather just pass along the name they're given or worse yet mislabel in an attempt to make more $......

 

[crenicichla444]

Couldn't agree more. The big one I have is probably my favorite fish. I can't help but think they seem to have a different head shape. Even in these little guys I swear I see 2 different head shapes and they seem to match the different jaw lines. Also appears 2 have a higher arch in their back.

These "Lacs" were a lot easier to justify then the "big head Dorado"...... lol Can't think of a better guy to put my faith into then Wes. He seems to enjoy the venture of discovering what stuff is along with us instead of arrogant vendors that don't even bother correctly IDing what they have but rather just pass along the name they're given or worse yet mislabel in an attempt to make more $......

Probably? As in more than your Rays? Lol. In the little guys I talked to Wes yesterday and he even said the red cf. lacs are supposed to have a longer snout. I saw one of your vids and was really drawn to one of your wolves not sure if it was iguaZA or lacerdae but the snout was really long and attractive. Pretty active too...

Speaking of the "bighead" dorado I think it's time for a little update...


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[fugupuff]

ok, I hear my name again, my ears are burning. So here is for clarification:

the hoplias lacerdae small ones I have, with green eyes and body is almost entirely green, which is consistent with hoplias lacerdae, they're collected in Argentina, so the collection point is correct., and my friends have collected many adults, and one key point is they turn green. They have a moderately square head at this size.

as for the medium sized fish 3-4" ones, they're listed as Hoplias cf. lacerdae. Reason is they're collected in a different area, on the boarder of Paraguay/ Brazil. I think these are the same as previous Iguazu sp., etc... maybe they'll turn out to be hoplias australis, maybe something totally new. The fisherman think its something new, and these are the ones they sell in Taiwan, Japan for $500 each wholesale.

As for those that are not familiar with the term "cf." Here: The abbreviation cf. derives from the Latin word confer, while in English it is commonly read as "compare". The abbreviation advises readers to consult other material, usually for the purpose of drawing a contrast. In biological naming conventions, cf. is variously used; commonly it is placed between the generic name and the specific name to describe a specimen whose designation is uncertain because of practical difficulties such as poor preservation of the specimen. For example: Barbus cf. holotaenia implies that the specimen is believed to be Barbus holotaenia but the actual identification cannot be certain. The use of cf. in biological nomenclature expresses a possible identity, or at least a significant resemblance, such as between a newly observed specimen and a known species or taxon.[10] Such a usage might suggest a specimen's membership of the same genus or possibly of a shared higher taxon, such as in "Diptera: Tabanidae, cf. Tabanus" where the author is confident of the order Diptera and family Tabanidae, but can offer the genus Tabanus only as a suggestion, and has no information favouring a particular species.[

Probably? As in more than your Rays? Lol. In the little guys I talked to Wes yesterday and he even said the red cf. lacs are supposed to have a longer snout. I saw one of your vids and was really drawn to one of your wolves not sure if it was iguaZA or lacerdae but the snout was really long and attractive. Pretty active too...

Speaking of the "bighead" dorado I think it's time for a little update...


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[fugupuff]

As for controversy: I'm never shy from it.

As for why some fish are more expensive at one point and cheaper later, or why I have cheaper prices sometimes or more expensive. I try to buy in larger quantities to get the best price. Like this shipment from Argentina, I received 52 boxes of fish, close to $25,000 in fish. At this point Argentina is banning the export of all fish from the country, and this will be the last shipment for a while. In order for shipments to come out they'll have to be driven across to another country and exported from there, making it more cost prohibitive.

I take the risk and you guys get to have fun buying them at a fraction of the cost. Your risk is a hundred or a couple of hundred. And DB should know I do anything in my power to take care of my customers, but if you screw me over one time, I will cut you off.

 

[fugupuff]

As for identification: yes, I trust Felipe Cantera on id of hoplias, as the lives in Uruguay.
As for jaw line, its rather confusing for me as well...I just picked up one of the baby ones to look at the jaw line, its neither complete V or parallel. If someone can find the original post by Felipe identifying the 2.,
As for hoplias malabaricus, that consists of a larger group of fish than we thought. Malabaricus is a common name and fish, all the wolves in Peru are malabaricus, a very common fish found in the ditch in Suriname, and food fish. Google Suriname, its at the top of South America, northern tip. How is it possible that the ones in Argentina are also malabaricus, a fish that tolerates cold water and about 3000 plus miles apart. and if you look up Echmeyer's catalogue of fish, there are many different species out there and some in between, so I think it is what makes this so fun. Also realize how big these countries and jungles are. You can fly hours over these jungles with many different rivers, some separate and some connect, so some would have evolved isolated from each other for many years, speciation takes place.

 

[crenicichla444]

As for controversy: I'm never shy from it.

As for why some fish are more expensive at one point and cheaper later, or why I have cheaper prices sometimes or more expensive. I try to buy in larger quantities to get the best price. Like this shipment from Argentina, I received 52 boxes of fish, close to $25,000 in fish. At this point Argentina is banning the export of all fish from the country, and this will be the last shipment for a while. In order for shipments to come out they'll have to be driven across to another country and exported from there, making it more cost prohibitive.

I take the risk and you guys get to have fun buying them at a fraction of the cost. Your risk is a hundred or a couple of hundred. And DB should know I do anything in my power to take care of my customers, but if you screw me over one time, I will cut you off.

Wes you've taken care of me even to the point of when you don't have too and you're going beyond the norm.

Argentina is banning the importation of fish for awhile??? I have a order I'd like to fill I think... I'll text you lol I know for sure yours are lacerdae. If you noticed these are the same pics I sent u last night wondering what you thought? I'd rather be safe and get a lacerdae from you. The green on them in the vids and pics are enough to convince me that they're lacs. You get a lot of cf.s which is pretty cool u get to grow it up and see what it is... Still got that opsariichthys that isn't a species yet, really cool keep it up Wes!


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[fugupuff]

thanks for your confidence in me. Sorry I didn't mean to ignore all your txts, but I was on family vacation last week, just returning today, and also sometimes I Just don't have enough time to reply. Regarding the salminus hilarii, I'm working on it, but nothing yet. Many of these suppliers are crooks you have to understand, they'll tell me they have something, and after I send the money they will send me something else instead, so its a cautious move. My Argentina guy is pretty solid however...

Wes you've taken care of me even to the point of when you don't have too and you're going beyond the norm.

Argentina is banning the importation of fish for awhile??? I have a order I'd like to fill I think... I'll text you lol I know for sure yours are lacerdae. If you noticed these are the same pics I sent u last night wondering what you thought? I'd rather be safe and get a lacerdae from you. The green on them in the vids and pics are enough to convince me that they're lacs. You get a lot of cf.s which is pretty cool u get to grow it up and see what it is... Still got that opsariichthys that isn't a species yet, really cool keep it up Wes!


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