ill post the pic you sent me for ya john. the ray was 12" across he measures the ray against the glass with a stub tail its kinda like guy you got a deal and a half shipping was cheap, and you are complaining, yet you dont know how to measure out your own ray you invested money on. i sold the 10" male customer was very happy. reefman was here at my place mroe then once and saw them...sure he could cherp in here...kinda rediculous been going back and fourth via email...ill get the pic up.