Large Predatory Haps?

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My favorites looks-wise are the Fossos. But i was doing some research on the cichlid forum and reading through the description there were a few things that i didn't like:


"In the wild, groups of up to 50 individuals have been observed, with only 1 male showing dominant coloration. Breeding dress is most stunning and quite variable between specimens. Colors are metallic appearing and can range from purple, to green, to yellow, to blue, & turquoise. This color is most intense in the morning and fades later in the day as it mainly forages. Females release & protect fry for several weeks aprat from the group & in the intermediate zone. Individuals often bury themselves in the sand (if provided) when trying to avoid capture, both in the wild & in the aquarium. Along the northwestern coastline of the lake, individuals are ''followed'' by Cyrtocara moorii and Protomelas annectens, who feed on items exposed by F. rostratus's digging/filtering practices."

Would i most likely only have one with really good coloration in the tank?
Would the color fading be that drastic?

Plus it doesn't really seem like they're very predatory.

Too bad, :( they look amazing.
 
Hi Will,

My 125 gallon all male tank currently contains ..........

1 - Copadichromis borleyi (Kadango)
1 - Champsochromis caeruleus
1 - Fossorochromis rostratus
1 - Stigmatochromis modestus
1 - Buccochromis cf. spectabilis
1 - Copadichromis azureus
1 - Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" (Taiwan Reef)
1 - Sciaenochromis fryeri
2 - Placidochromis sp. "Phenochilus Tanzania"
1 - Crytocara moorii
1 - Aulonocara jacobfreibergi "Otter Point"
1 - Aulonocara "German Red"
2 - Labidochromis caeruleus "Electric yellow"

All of the males in my tank are generally showing full color. It's a delicate balance for sure, and you need to be prepared to add &/or subtract as sometimes some males will become hyper dominant & have to be removed, or are too sub dominant to fully color up in the presence of other more dominant fish. With the exception of my Champsochromis & Buccochromis, all of my fish are adults, and even at a mere 5" the Buccochromis is already solid blue. Certainly some male fish will exhibit heightened coloration when actually spawning, but in an all male hap tank all of the males are constantly attempting to psych each other out, and are generally always displaying & showing good color. In some cases multiple males of the same genus or species will all show good color, but typically one will dominate the rest, and exhibit the best color in the group.

Below is a rostratus that grew up in an all male tank. (not my fish, but it will give you a good idea of what one can expect to see) But yes, they are not exactly a predatory species, if that's what you are going after.

fosso.jpg



That fish resides in the tank shown in the link below. You can see how John's tank tranformed over time, and when you get to the last pic you can see how that rostratus was in full color, and approx 10-12" in that photo. Also, the fusco was fully colored up, as were all 4 male venustus. That was in a 125, but I believe he later moved everything into a 180.

http://www.ida-may.com/other/johntank1.jpg


As those fish grew out, the dom male venustus in that group looked like this,
http://www.ida-may.com/other/venustus13.jpg which is full blown spawning coloration. The other 3 venustus kept their spots, but still had superb color.


I was on another site and they recomended against the Champs. because of something about their swimming habits.


In a 180 gallon??? Keep a tight seal on the lid (with no open spaces) and you shouldn't have any problems. Yes champs are fast & powerful swimmers, but they tend to max out at 12-13" in an aquarium, not the 16" you read on various online profiles. If a 30+" arowana can be kept in a 240 gallon, a 12" champ can certainly be kept in a 180, or for that matter, a 125.

IME start with young males, just big enough that you can determine that the fish are indeed males, and let them grow out together. Keep the tank fairly well stocked at this point to help spead the aggression. Young male fish are like most other young males, they have raging hormones & will fight at the drop of a hat. Unless you see any serious aggression, or obvious signs of certain fish that just won't get along with anything, let them establish their own pecking order. Also keep in mind that as these fish mature they will generally settle down, and pick their battles more carefully. Some of the larger haps can take 2-4 yrs to become fully mature & show their true potential.
You need to have patience, but IMO the end result is worth wait.


HTH
 
RD.;2827901; said:
Hi Will,

My 125 gallon all male tank currently contains ..........

1 - Copadichromis borleyi (Kadango)
1 - Champsochromis caeruleus
1 - Fossorochromis rostratus
1 - Stigmatochromis modestus
1 - Buccochromis cf. spectabilis
1 - Copadichromis azureus
1 - Protomelas sp. "Steveni Taiwan" (Taiwan Reef)
1 - Sciaenochromis fryeri
2 - Placidochromis sp. "Phenochilus Tanzania"
1 - Crytocara moorii
1 - Aulonocara jacobfreibergi "Otter Point"
1 - Aulonocara "German Red"
2 - Labidochromis caeruleus "Electric yellow"

All of the males in my tank are generally showing full color. It's a delicate balance for sure, and you need to be prepared to add &/or subtract as sometimes some males will become hyper dominant & have to be removed, or are too sub dominant to fully color up in the presence of other more dominant fish. With the exception of my Champsochromis & Buccochromis, all of my fish are adults, and even at a mere 5" the Buccochromis is already solid blue. Certainly some male fish will exhibit heightened coloration when actually spawning, but in an all male hap tank all of the males are constantly attempting to psych each other out, and are generally always displaying & showing good color. In some cases multiple males of the same genus or species will all show good color, but typically one will dominate the rest, and exhibit the best color in the group.

That sounds really nice, The only problem with that is the fact that this would most likely be my only tank with considerable size, so subtracting fish would be difficult. Also, i'd prefer to do a group of all the same species, would this be better to do a breeding group? you say one will dominate the rest, but will the rest still exhibit relatively good color?

Below is a rostratus that grew up in an all male tank. (not my fish, but it will give you a good idea of what one can expect to see) But yes, they are not exactly a predatory species, if that's what you are going after.

I would prefer they be predatory, but the color that the fosso's have surely makes up for their nonpredatory habits. That is a gorgeous fish. Their "eartheater" habits seem pretty interesting and it seems they would be all over the top and bottom of the tank, which is good. :)

fosso.jpg



That fish resides in the tank shown in the link below. You can see how John's tank tranformed over time, and when you get to the last pic you can see how that rostratus was in full color, and approx 10-12" in that photo. Also, the fusco was fully colored up, as were all 4 male venustus. That was in a 125, but I believe he later moved everything into a 180.

http://www.ida-may.com/other/johntank1.jpg

That tank looks amazing, I think it looks better as it progressed and there were fewer, but larger fish. The fact that all the male venestus were colored up is reassuring, as i would like to have all one species preferably.

As those fish grew out, the dom male venustus in that group looked like this,
http://www.ida-may.com/other/venustus13.jpg which is full blown spawning coloration. The other 3 venustus kept their spots, but still had superb color.





In a 180 gallon??? Keep a tight seal on the lid (with no open spaces) and you shouldn't have any problems. Yes champs are fast & powerful swimmers, but they tend to max out at 12-13" in an aquarium, not the 16" you read on various online profiles. If a 30+" arowana can be kept in a 240 gallon, a 12" champ can certainly be kept in a 180, or for that matter, a 125.

Yes, they recommended against them. So they only get 12-13"? That sounds better than the 18" i have seen on some sites, but i don't really like their color as much as i like B. Rhoadesi (sp?) or the Fosso's.


IME start with young males, just big enough that you can determine that the fish are indeed males, and let them grow out together. Keep the tank fairly well stocked at this point to help spead the aggression. Young male fish are like most other young males, they have raging hormones & will fight at the drop of a hat. Unless you see any serious aggression, or obvious signs of certain fish that just won't get along with anything, let them establish their own pecking order. Also keep in mind that as these fish mature they will generally settle down, and pick their battles more carefully. Some of the larger haps can take 2-4 yrs to become fully mature & show their true potential.
You need to have patience, but IMO the end result is worth wait.

Okay, i hope that do mellow out as they get larger, because what i imagine is a nice looking, active "shoal" of sorts where everyone gets along. But I would prefer for it not to be too "well-stocked" because i don't really like the look, but i suppose i could sell some off as they matured and mellowed out.

HTH

Answered in red.
Thanks for all your help HTH. :)

Thanks,
Will
 
The species that you are considering aren't exactly species that will shoal within the confines of a glass cage. Fish such as Buccochromis rhoadesii (as well as B. lepturus, B. nototaenia etc) can be a handful in a 180, as will most of the larger predatory species. By subtracting, I meant selling the fish off, not rehousing it in another tank. (although if you had more tanks that too would have been a viable option)

I honestly have no idea how a tank full of any one of those species would work in the same tank? I'm guessing that one male would exhibit dom colors 24/7, and the rest would appear somewhat drab, as most sub dom fish do. When you mix males from different genus it tends to allow all of the males to color up to their max potential, especially if none of them closely resemble one another in color or pattern.

I think for what you are attempting to achieve you might be better off going for a single species breeding set up, such as a group of F. rostratus. (or whichever species you personally prefer) You could try for 3 males, and 4-5 females, hope for the best & plan for the worst. :)



 
RD.;2830374; said:
The species that you are considering aren't exactly species that will shoal within the confines of a glass cage. Fish such as Buccochromis rhoadesii (as well as B. lepturus, B. nototaenia etc) can be a handful in a 180, as will most of the larger predatory species. By subtracting, I meant selling the fish off, not rehousing it in another tank. (although if you had more tanks that too would have been a viable option)

I honestly have no idea how a tank full of any one of those species would work in the same tank? I'm guessing that one male would exhibit dom colors 24/7, and the rest would appear somewhat drab, as most sub dom fish do. When you mix males from different genus it tends to allow all of the males to color up to their max potential, especially if none of them closely resemble one another in color or pattern.

I think for what you are attempting to achieve you might be better off going for a single species breeding set up, such as a group of F. rostratus. (or whichever species you personally prefer) You could try for 3 males, and 4-5 females, hope for the best & plan for the worst. :)




I think thats most likely what i'll end up doing. A breeding setup with just Fossochromis Rostratus, i just can't get over those colors. Just amazing. So you would say 3male 4-5female? Do you think those would be good proportions?

RD.;2830772; said:
Will - take a look at the 180 gallon set up in the link below.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=175184

John has had success keeping breeding groups, as well as lone male haps in his tank. Just more food for thought ......

Neil

You keep showing me all of these stunning Fosso's, i can't take it. :nilly:
They're just so freaking beautiful. Thats a nice tank as well, i just would prefer to go single species.

Thanks alot for all your help, Neil. :)

Will
 
3m/5f would be an ideal number of adults in a 180. Glad to help Will, make sure to post pics when you get your tank up & running.

Neil
 
RD - In the progression pics. did the fish cause the number reduction or John? I love how they get bigger and fewer.
 
I believe that John just decided to change things up a bit as time went on.
 
While I don't have near the camera skills as John Labbe, below is a recent photo of my 125 all male tank.

fish771.jpg




...... and my not yet fully grown male rostratus.

fish774.jpg
 
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