LARGE sharks and aquarists
- Thread starter capo larzo
- Start date
capo larzo;3235270; said:
i completely agree. for the competent person, buying a 20 gallon tank to house juvenile fish would turn into buying a larger tank dependent on the species. most people get into the hobby small... as with most hobbies and i don't think that is unhealthy. but education is definitely key... as most people don't even take care of dogs and cats properly... heck most people can't even take care of their kids. i can't tell you how many times i've seen parents lets their kids run amok or not discipline them.
i certainly did not get my large tank first... went through (2) 20 gallon tanks before upgrading.
so all in all... that explanation from the dunning-kruger effect is spot on. incompetent people that can't rationalize their own incompetence is a dangerous thing... not just for themselves, but for the people in close proximity. i think it's because we give all kids trophies in sports even when they lose
i agree with the thread completely. way too much flaming on the site! alot of the threads I read seem to go from a question being asked to a few posts in people taking almost personal shots at people. that are completelyyyy unnecessary. it gets ridiculous. and i love how everyone says its more the buyers responsibility and unfortunately it is. it shouldn't be .. when you go to adopt a child or even a dog (here at least not sure about everywhere) but you have to meet requirements. they dont just sell dogs to anyone who walks through the door. they ask questions etc etc and make a judgement call if the person is able to take care of the dog. but when it comes to fish its like .. eh whatever, profit is profit.
i agree with the idea you shouldnt come down on people trying to learn.
but i also think some of these monsters should be for sale, if you can provide for the animal then its your right to have it. perhaps a little more education from the dealer should be provided, or only stock them for special orders.
but i also think some of these monsters should be for sale, if you can provide for the animal then its your right to have it. perhaps a little more education from the dealer should be provided, or only stock them for special orders.
most of the time, its people who are defensive of their bad judgments/mistakes with buying a big fish without the means to house it. most of us on here will try to tell this person that it nots right, but its all up to that person to listensostoudt;3633706; said:
While it's fun to have a monster fish - that most people wouldn't be able to keep. There's also a very real case that some species of sharks - which require huge systems are sold cheap enough to be very affordable to most private SW aquarists.
The main case - I'm thinking of is the Nurse Shark (Ginglymostoma cirratum) which is one of the hardiest species of sharks, and can get to 10 ft or more, and require a large swimming pool sized lagoon/tank to keep for life (30 yrs +). It's very possible to find a Nurse pup selling for less than a Cali Horn pup does at major LFS. But a pup of one of the larger species of Wobbies, will sell for about nearly 3 x what a Nurse pup does.
Like wise - I've seen Lemon pups selling for less than Blacktip reefs or Bonnetheads. Which is just crazy.
The main case - I'm thinking of is the Nurse Shark (Ginglymostoma cirratum) which is one of the hardiest species of sharks, and can get to 10 ft or more, and require a large swimming pool sized lagoon/tank to keep for life (30 yrs +). It's very possible to find a Nurse pup selling for less than a Cali Horn pup does at major LFS. But a pup of one of the larger species of Wobbies, will sell for about nearly 3 x what a Nurse pup does.
Like wise - I've seen Lemon pups selling for less than Blacktip reefs or Bonnetheads. Which is just crazy.
Another thing we all have to keep in mind, is that stolid routine goes both ways.
I have certainly seen my fair share of uninformed persons who refuse to listen to advice here. If we stroll through any of the general inquiry lounges we'll see this. Either I just bought this, or I am going to get this, or here is my current system. right away we tend to offer the stipends that fit everyone. Stock lightly, prepare first or do not get what you are thinking about. The first of which from nearly all newbies is the denial phase. This other guy did it and he's working out just fine. My fish will be just happy. No matter what you say, I am going to do this. Sure my levels spiked and some of my fish died, won't happen again next time.
Generally followed by a more aggressive standard. Who are you to say I can't? I'm not asking for the problem you have answered, I'm looking for validation, dummy. I recall one gentleman on here who routinely did 90% plus water changes. I gave my two cents on smaller amount of water more frequently and nearly got my neck removed. My response was a bit off topic, but you have to assume that will happen in the full scope of information gathering.
But what if I do this to the tank? Why don't I overstock with a bigger filter? I can sacrifice here and add his here. Bargaining with the experiences of others and general guidelines to procure desired end. I don't know about you guys/gals, but I see this at the LFS all the time. Well, I can keep it in this tank for life, but I'll have to do (generic routine) to make it happen.
The next step we hardly see here. If someone has migrated properly through the rest of the process, and come to the conclusion they have to wait out proper set up, or not do as they had wished, they lose focus of the hobby. Might call it depressed that the projections either can't be done as wished, or require a monumental amount of effort to be done. This step (stage) weeds out most of the casual keepers from the monster keepers.
The end result is what we see here. Once you have moved through this scheme, gathered all of the information possible and have a full understanding of what is to be considered correct, you near the standard of "pro". At that point you see the mistakes others are making and the incorrect assumptions they adhere to. I'm sure we've all had the long winded explanation of a particular problem we have faced. The person responding will give massive amounts of information that ties in some way back to our goals, followed with a justified opinion of how to proceed.
Hopefully the ironic quality of this trend isn't lost, I thought it was quite clever. (there goes my ego again)
Anywhere along the way we will offer advice to others not as far progressed as we are, but we tend to get less emotional about it farther we come. The general consensus we reach is that a decision will lead to sad consequences, as it typically does. All we can due as the purveyors of information is offer it as objectively as possible, and as humbly as possible. With any amount of luck, those moving through the steps will learn from them as they go, as we did when we did them.
I have certainly seen my fair share of uninformed persons who refuse to listen to advice here. If we stroll through any of the general inquiry lounges we'll see this. Either I just bought this, or I am going to get this, or here is my current system. right away we tend to offer the stipends that fit everyone. Stock lightly, prepare first or do not get what you are thinking about. The first of which from nearly all newbies is the denial phase. This other guy did it and he's working out just fine. My fish will be just happy. No matter what you say, I am going to do this. Sure my levels spiked and some of my fish died, won't happen again next time.
Generally followed by a more aggressive standard. Who are you to say I can't? I'm not asking for the problem you have answered, I'm looking for validation, dummy. I recall one gentleman on here who routinely did 90% plus water changes. I gave my two cents on smaller amount of water more frequently and nearly got my neck removed. My response was a bit off topic, but you have to assume that will happen in the full scope of information gathering.
But what if I do this to the tank? Why don't I overstock with a bigger filter? I can sacrifice here and add his here. Bargaining with the experiences of others and general guidelines to procure desired end. I don't know about you guys/gals, but I see this at the LFS all the time. Well, I can keep it in this tank for life, but I'll have to do (generic routine) to make it happen.
The next step we hardly see here. If someone has migrated properly through the rest of the process, and come to the conclusion they have to wait out proper set up, or not do as they had wished, they lose focus of the hobby. Might call it depressed that the projections either can't be done as wished, or require a monumental amount of effort to be done. This step (stage) weeds out most of the casual keepers from the monster keepers.
The end result is what we see here. Once you have moved through this scheme, gathered all of the information possible and have a full understanding of what is to be considered correct, you near the standard of "pro". At that point you see the mistakes others are making and the incorrect assumptions they adhere to. I'm sure we've all had the long winded explanation of a particular problem we have faced. The person responding will give massive amounts of information that ties in some way back to our goals, followed with a justified opinion of how to proceed.
Hopefully the ironic quality of this trend isn't lost, I thought it was quite clever. (there goes my ego again)
Anywhere along the way we will offer advice to others not as far progressed as we are, but we tend to get less emotional about it farther we come. The general consensus we reach is that a decision will lead to sad consequences, as it typically does. All we can due as the purveyors of information is offer it as objectively as possible, and as humbly as possible. With any amount of luck, those moving through the steps will learn from them as they go, as we did when we did them.
billbobthegreat;3234956; said:
Thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard.
White sturgeon never stop growing. They dont reach 8' for 45 yrs. There has been a recorded 20' specimen thats 150 yrs old. Am I evil for not having a tank to hold my sturgeon when it reaches 20'? I bet this makes you REALLY f*ng angry.
I think that if you do buy a monster fish but don't have the tank it needs for life is ok as long as you do have plans and are prepared to meet the requirments and beyond to make it happy. Really the sellers of these monster fish should be blamed because they should make sure you have a big enough tank and know what you are getting into. They should make sure someone doesn't take a nurse shark and stick it in a 55 gallon tank for life. Or at least they should warn them and then it's the owners fault and then they deserve to be yelled at. I have heard stories of people who had a big nurse shark in a 50 gallon tank and they said it's his permanent home. Another was the owner said the seller told him that a shark can fit in a small tank for life. These are the people we should be mad at. Not the people who have juvi fish in
small tanks they still fit in but are planning to upgrade as it grows or they get the money.
These are just things that flew into my mind as I was reading this thread.
-scubachick0121
small tanks they still fit in but are planning to upgrade as it grows or they get the money.These are just things that flew into my mind as I was reading this thread.
-scubachick0121
ScubaChick0121;3778758; said:I think that if you do buy a monster fish but don't have the tank it needs for life is ok as long as you do have plans and are prepared to meet the requirments and beyond to make it happy. Really the sellers of these monster fish should be blamed because they should make sure you have a big enough tank and know what you are getting into. They should make sure someone doesn't take a nurse shark and stick it in a 55 gallon tank for life. Or at least they should warn them and then it's the owners fault and then they deserve to be yelled at. I have heard stories of people who had a big nurse shark in a 50 gallon tank and they said it's his permanent home. Another was the owner said the seller told him that a shark can fit in a small tank for life. These are the people we should be mad at. Not the people who have juvi fish in
These are just things that flew into my mind as I was reading this thread.
-scubachick0121
EXACTLY
