Lissen to this

[Noto]

Oh, this bill certainly is imperfect and based on little or poor research in many cases. My point is that the stuff many people seem to be getting upset about isn't actually in the bill. It's a waste of time and energy to rally against a bill you haven't even read.

You can see some of my thoughts on what regulation should do here if you're interested. I broadly agree with what you've posted here, except for your down-playing of the threat of invasive species.

 

[varanio]

Oh, this bill certainly is imperfect and based on little or poor research in many cases. My point is that the stuff many people seem to be getting upset about isn't actually in the bill. It's a waste of time and energy to rally against a bill you haven't even read.

You can see some of my thoughts on what regulation should do here if you're interested. I broadly agree with what you've posted here, except for your down-playing of the threat of invasive species.

I dont think anything has been downplayed, granted there are exceptions specifically in the great lakes with the mollusk problem, but that has nothing to do with the bill itself either. The fact that nile monitors and burmese pythons are rolling around in florida is an example along with channa in fish.... that this bill was manifested. Pure hysteria derived from the press, and some a hole in congress wanting to be the poster child for exotic pet trade regulation.

We have to remember that some of these invasives like cichla occelaris is non native and introduced by our govt.....large mouth bass arent native to Fl either, but it sure is one of our favorites because of the cash cow it is in sports fishing. Why arent those things talked about? Why does the nile monitor have to be victimized? What has it really done? Where is the proof that it is erradicating native wildlife? Where is the proof for channa species in the potomac? Its all come back inconclusive contrary to what the news feeds us....the news isnt really news... its part of entertainment. So until someone shows me otherwise, I will think that its not downplayed. I think it needs concrete evidence, until then it will be inconclusive.

 

[Noto]

Yellow journalism is what it is. But I fear you're going too far to the other side. Introduced Burmese pythons have destroyed a significant part of the endangered Key Largo Woodrat's global population, and introduced rats, pigs, goats, and mongooses have caused massive extinctions in the Pacific. Introduced mosquitofish and bullfrogs have similarly wreaked havoc among aquatic species in the western US. Introduced honeysuckles and privet are wiping out wildflowers in the eastern woodlands. If you want to see just how much damage introduced species can do, take a look at Australia or Hawaii.

You can argue that not all of those introductions are due to the pet trade, and it's true. But that doesn't mean the pet trade should not be regulated to prevent further damage; it means that the pet trade AND the horticulture, agriculture, shipping, and hunting industries should ALL be regulated.

By the way, largemouth bass are native to Florida, though the Florida strain may in fact represent an independent species. Florida largemouth are exported to the rest of the US and across the world, because they grow larger than northern largemouth.

 

[varanio]

Yellow journalism is what it is. But I fear you're going too far to the other side. Introduced Burmese pythons have destroyed a significant part of the endangered Key Largo Woodrat's global population, and introduced rats, pigs, goats, and mongooses have caused massive extinctions in the Pacific. Introduced mosquitofish and bullfrogs have similarly wreaked havoc among aquatic species in the western US. Introduced honeysuckles and privet are wiping out wildflowers in the eastern woodlands. If you want to see just how much damage introduced species can do, take a look at Australia or Hawaii.

You can argue that not all of those introductions are due to the pet trade, and it's true. But that doesn't mean the pet trade should not be regulated to prevent further damage; it means that the pet trade AND the horticulture, agriculture, shipping, and hunting industries should ALL be regulated.

By the way, largemouth bass are native to Florida, though the Florida strain may in fact represent an independent species. Florida largemouth are exported to the rest of the US and across the world, because they grow larger than northern largemouth.

Has the Burmese actually made it to the keys? I just read an article where they did a study finding it inconclusive that they have (yet) to find any down there. Not sure if they have or not yet. But its what I read. I do agree that regulation is needed. I never disagreed with you there, but... and its a huge but at that....that you and I know both know that the pet trade will take the bigger part of the blame. Not the importation companies of various examples you gave above. I dont think that I went to other side, but I can see us getting the bigger end of the whipping stick in terms of the regulation. Lets face it were not as popular and less popular than the larger corps that import various other products. I am very well aware of the damage introduced species can do in an isolated environment. The animals hardly evolve in such places which cause them to succumb to new introduced species. (thats an entirely different dialogue though)

Cheers

 

[Noto]

Here ya go: http://www.nature.org/wherewework/northamerica/states/florida/science/art24101.html

 

[varanio]

Here ya go: http://www.nature.org/wherewework/northamerica/states/florida/science/art24101.html

Hmmm thats interesting, oh well its just a stupid rat ha ha ah ah jk... thats terrible that they made it to Keys.

Either way....it looks like they are here to stay. I was never with keeping these larger species to begin with. And you just provided good proof as to why. This is why I keep to my small mini monitors. And I am glad that they command a high price tag so I dont have to worry about yahoos buying them from me.

Good chat. Lets hope some form of regulation is passed for these larger species.

 

[coura]

A final though If there are burmese pythons, iguanas and monitors roaming Florida why dont make that a hit insted of a miss? That´s something I still dont get it, all of thouse, specialy the snakes but also the monitors have a huge demand for leather products and for meat in south east asia (ig meat is higly sougth after by latino people) so why dont make a industry out of them and some big bucks along insted of freezing and dump them? Actualy if that was made with a no limit bag I bet all of thouse would go in a sharp decline or even extinct shortly after

 

[varanio]

A final though If there are burmese pythons, iguanas and monitors roaming Florida why dont make that a hit insted of a miss? That´s something I still dont get it, all of thouse, specialy the snakes but also the monitors have a huge demand for leather products and for meat in south east asia (ig meat is higly sougth after by latino people) so why dont make a industry out of them and some big bucks along insted of freezing and dump them? Actualy if that was made with a no limit bag I bet all of thouse would go in a sharp decline or even extinct shortly after

Stop smoking green before you post ha ha ha ha ha ha I am hispanic and I have absolutely no desire for such goods.

 

[krzr3000]

Stopping the pet trade is a sacrifice we should make to stop millions of animals from suffering every year just for our enjoyment.

Quoted for truth

 

[varanio]

It looks like no one in this thread has even looked over the bill.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h669ih.txt.pdf

All animals you have now you will get to keep. Also zoos,aquariums and educational programs will still be able to get permits to have and import the animals. But the way the bill is worded right now it cant be passed. They need to change it so the owners of animals now can be sold/given away to protect the animals from being put down because they cant be passed on. Also breeders/rescues will have excess animals they cant take care of and need to be reimbursed.

I agree with this bill and anyone on this forum who care about these animals should to. Im sure for the most part everyone on this board takes good care of their animals but for most animals this isnt the case. Stopping the pet trade is a sacrifice we should make to stop millions of animals from suffering every year just for our enjoyment.

If we all agreed then this forum wouldnt exist.