Live vs Prepared vs Pellet
- Thread starter KillaFish
- Start date
Really. Perhaps you could tell everyone here what a high quality twin screw extruder goes for these days.
And that is based on exactly what, the post count next to ones user ID?
Feed ur pellets to those greedy feeder catfish.. den also give them some sliced tilapia shrimp and sutchi fillet.. den when they are fed.. feed the damn feeder to ur fish.. u get a 3 in 1 den.. 
Nothing said changes my original opinion about feeding a variety but i bet if you were to experiment with pellet vs live the fish being feed solely live would outgrow the one being feed pellet. does it make it healthier for the fish in the long term (say it's parasite free)? Will it outlive the one on pellets? Probably no on both.
The cheeseburger comparison is accurate in the context of compare a kid raised on food it likes and how big he gets compared to a kid eating a primarily healthy diet. Is the bigger kid healthy? Is the bigger kid going to outlive the kid eating healthy? Probably no on both.
The cheeseburger comparison is accurate in the context of compare a kid raised on food it likes and how big he gets compared to a kid eating a primarily healthy diet. Is the bigger kid healthy? Is the bigger kid going to outlive the kid eating healthy? Probably no on both.
I don't see anyone arguing the fact that fresh/frozen can be fed in conjunction with other foods, such as pellets. The issue arose when certain members began making statements that are simply untrue, and cannot be substantiated. Such as;
In fact, the exact opposite is true, there are many elements in a high quality pellet that will not be found in fresh/frozen, or feeders.
Anyone that took the time to actually read the info supplied in the link on FEEDING CAPTIVE PISCIVOROUS ANIMALS: NUTRITIONAL ASPECTS OF FISH AS FOOD ............ would clearly see that that the 5 "experts" involved in that paper agreed that even when using fresh high quality frozen foods, vitamin supplemenation is required. Also, they recommend samples be taken on a regular basis as nutrient content in the feed can vary greatly. (protein, fat, gross energy, dry matter, etc)
How many hobbyists do you reckon have analysis performed on their feed on a regular basis? How many heve even a remote idea what amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins, or minerals are present in their fresh/frozen/feeders? I'm guessing not many.
The reality is that very few hobbyists can duplicate what takes place in nature, in a glass cage. Compared to what these fish would experience in nature, most can't even offer adequate space, yet they somehow feel compelled to feed their fish "just like it would eat in the wild."
No, that's not accurate, as it was comparing the nutrient composition of a high quality pellet, to a cheeseburger. Unless I read it wrong, in which case I will stand corrected.
In fact, the exact opposite is true, there are many elements in a high quality pellet that will not be found in fresh/frozen, or feeders.
Anyone that took the time to actually read the info supplied in the link on FEEDING CAPTIVE PISCIVOROUS ANIMALS: NUTRITIONAL ASPECTS OF FISH AS FOOD ............ would clearly see that that the 5 "experts" involved in that paper agreed that even when using fresh high quality frozen foods, vitamin supplemenation is required. Also, they recommend samples be taken on a regular basis as nutrient content in the feed can vary greatly. (protein, fat, gross energy, dry matter, etc)
How many hobbyists do you reckon have analysis performed on their feed on a regular basis? How many heve even a remote idea what amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins, or minerals are present in their fresh/frozen/feeders? I'm guessing not many.
The reality is that very few hobbyists can duplicate what takes place in nature, in a glass cage. Compared to what these fish would experience in nature, most can't even offer adequate space, yet they somehow feel compelled to feed their fish "just like it would eat in the wild."
No, that's not accurate, as it was comparing the nutrient composition of a high quality pellet, to a cheeseburger. Unless I read it wrong, in which case I will stand corrected.
I understand your point and understand the finding in the link you presented but what i don't understand is where wild specimen are getting these nutrition and vitamin in their natural environment. It almost sounds like they're implying that a "well feed" captive specimen (with adequate space of course) will always be in better condition then a wild caught specimen because they can supplement their diet with additional nutrition?
RD.;4359171; said:
there are a number of guys on here who work extensively with gars outside of the forum...i believe you've just met peje.
as far as pellet diets go, i believe quite a bit of research goes into identifying imporant characteristics of artificial diets & identifying strategies that help gar larvae accept an artificial diet. If i'm not wrong, several hatcheries also use an artificial diet to accelerate the growth of their gar from juvenile to commercial size
anyone want these articles?
for the most part we encourage a varied diet. i personally go with whole fish (from the market), market shrimp & pellets. again, it's pretty much never a good idea to compare fish to humans. that kind of logic almost never works.
although there's nothing wrong with trying to give ones fish the best (read, most beneficial) available diet, i agree that some people take it too far in, as you put it, "feel(ing) compelled to feed their fish "just like it would eat in the wild." ". especially when they gauge the quality of the feed by what it is (store bought feeder, store bought mice, -or as one member memorably fed - KFC chicken) instead of it's nurtitional value to the fish.
i'm greatly out of depth here especially with reGARds to the more "scientific' information, so feel free to point out any mistakes in whatever i've said. athough i'm hoping my reading of journal articles (do u guys call it that too?) will have paid off.
cheers,
alex
Because in the wild a gars prey is typically gut loaded with micronutrients.
To state that one should only feed what is natural to the fish, makes little sense for most people that are keeping fish in a glass cage. In the wild fish don't eat frozen seafood, either. They don't have to be concerned with B1 deficiencies from Thiaminase issues, and those that consume prey in the wild are also consuming the stomach contents of those prey, which in many cases consist of numerous phytoplankton, zooplankton, etc-etc.
I think that if one was to keep a colony of tropheus moorii in captivity and offered them nothing more than algae, you'd soon find out that tropheus require far more than algae to keep them in optimum health. This is where the amino acids found in raw ingredients such as krill meal, herring meal, squid meal, shrimp meal, etc come into play. The same amino acids, and fatty acids, found in the insect nymphs and larvae, crustaceans, snails, mites, micro-organisms, and zooplankton, that this species consumes when grazing on the aufwuchs.
Their long digestive tracts are designed as such so that in nature they can break down the complex plant matter that they consume in massive quantity, which doesn't mean that they can't properly assimilate more easily digestible forms of protein.
The vast majority of fish are opportunistic feeders, and are all omnivorous to a certain extent. Fish classified as piscivores/carnivores don't just eat meat, any more than a herbivorous cichlid just consumes vegetable matter. There must be a reason why many of the larger piscivores found in the wild can produce enzymes (such as amylase) that are capable of breaking down carbohydrates, even if it's in limited quantity.
It's all about balance, and in some cases feeding what appears to be a more "natural" diet, may in actuality fall far short of some of the higher quality commercial foods on the market.
To state that one should only feed what is natural to the fish, makes little sense for most people that are keeping fish in a glass cage. In the wild fish don't eat frozen seafood, either. They don't have to be concerned with B1 deficiencies from Thiaminase issues, and those that consume prey in the wild are also consuming the stomach contents of those prey, which in many cases consist of numerous phytoplankton, zooplankton, etc-etc.
I think that if one was to keep a colony of tropheus moorii in captivity and offered them nothing more than algae, you'd soon find out that tropheus require far more than algae to keep them in optimum health. This is where the amino acids found in raw ingredients such as krill meal, herring meal, squid meal, shrimp meal, etc come into play. The same amino acids, and fatty acids, found in the insect nymphs and larvae, crustaceans, snails, mites, micro-organisms, and zooplankton, that this species consumes when grazing on the aufwuchs.
Their long digestive tracts are designed as such so that in nature they can break down the complex plant matter that they consume in massive quantity, which doesn't mean that they can't properly assimilate more easily digestible forms of protein.
The vast majority of fish are opportunistic feeders, and are all omnivorous to a certain extent. Fish classified as piscivores/carnivores don't just eat meat, any more than a herbivorous cichlid just consumes vegetable matter. There must be a reason why many of the larger piscivores found in the wild can produce enzymes (such as amylase) that are capable of breaking down carbohydrates, even if it's in limited quantity.
It's all about balance, and in some cases feeding what appears to be a more "natural" diet, may in actuality fall far short of some of the higher quality commercial foods on the market.
I understand, but I didn't take that comment the same way that you did.
I'm obviously in agreement with Pejelajarto's comments thus far.
