Long stringy poop

[cchhcc]

Cool!

By the way, you can get your P-Bass off feeders too. Even if you don't, please raise your own. By the time feeders get to your via the supplier and lfs they are pretty much worthless. If you raise your own, however, you can make sure they "are what they eat!"

 

[deadhead]

Metro has to ingested to really be effective. Try making a paste food using a veggie base then add metro to it. Having also kept reptiles I had the chance to get liquid flagyl (Metro) I would add some to earthworms beddng wait a couple of days till the worms ingested the flagyl then feed them to my fish.
I have also found flubendazole to be effective in treating heximata. It is highy absorbed through the fishes gills. You must cut it with either alcohol( vodka) or very hot water to make it more water soluble. You do two treatments a week for about three weeks with 50% water changes before each treatment. This helps to get rid of the adults and the eggs.
As it has already been stated here these animals live with these parastic loads with no ill effects untill they are stressed by water conditions, diet, tankmates to name a few instances. Their immune systems weaken which causes these parasites to multiply.....
Keep up on your water changes good diet and dont stress them out and you should be fine.....

 

[NorCaliCichlids]

deadhead, Where can I get liquid metro and flubendzadole? The problem with metro (from what I've been told) is that it can be used to cut methampthetamine and thus pharmacies/vets are reluctant to give it out. For a while you could only get it online because of that! Crazy world we live in!

Yeah, by the time you know the fish has it they aren't eating and they're pretty much a goner, thus the interest in your method. I have had more success with clout which is weird since it's not made for that specifically. I find clout kills just about any disease. But you need to be careful with it.

On the p-bass, You can break them to pellets, you just need to wait them out. They'll eat sooner or later. I've broken marmorata pikes that way, just dont give in!

Don actually manufactures green algae for his Herichthys ponds to eat. He avoids bloat (mostly) that way. I need to get his recipe.

I dont see any info on the web saying HITH or Hexamita Intestinalis can be caused by too plain a diet. As you can see by my query to deadhead I'm also learning and looking for ways to kill a disease that has wiped out a great many super rare CA cichlids. If you want specific hobbyists who would warn against the kind of diet you are prescribing try Mo Devlin, Don Conkel, Rusty Wessel, Dan Woodland and Juan Miguel Artigas to name a few. Chris (cchccc) as well has stated it.

 

[VRWC]

If you want specific hobbyists who would warn against the kind of diet you are prescribing try Mo Devlin, Don Conkel, Rusty Wessel, Dan Woodland and Juan Miguel Artigas to name a few. Chris (cchccc) as well has stated it.

These fish eat worms, shrimp, beetles, crickets, fish, flies, mosquito larvae, algae, rotten fruits etc etc etc in the wild.

While I can agree with those you listed knowing what they are talking about, Ive NEVER lost a single fish to parasites or disease and have been alternating their diets daily for years...and Id put the health, looks and overall well being of my fish up against anyones.

These guys dont get unnaturally prepared pellets in the wild, so Id have to think that these un natural ingredients (& man made additives) cant be any better for the fish than the natural diets some of us choose to feed our fish.

from NLS New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula 600g 1mm Pellets (I have no allegiance to any certain food company, just used this one because it came up first in a google search):

Typical Ingredients: Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, Whole Herring Meal, Wheat Flour, Whole Squid Meal, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vegetable and Fruit Extract (Spinach, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Pea, Red and Green Cabbage, Apple, Apricot, Mango, Kiwi, Papaya, Peach, Pear), Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine, DL Alphatocophero ( E ), Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphosphate (Stable C), Ethylenediamine dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Choline Chloride.

sounds like a lot of man made meal/additives/ lab generated chemicals to emulate the nutrition received from an original source...more so than in the worms, shrimp, lettuce, crickets, mealworms, zucchini, peas etc I feed my fish. Its why mine dont get pellets as their only food. In my experience and opinion, the variation has to be better than a staple diet of the ingredients listed above.

 

[deadhead]

NorCaliCichlids
Liquid Flagyl is really hard to get! Use to come out of mexico....Haven't seen it at a Reptile Expo in years! Flubendazole is avialable from Charles Harrison. I will get you his email. He is a killifish guy from St Louis. Real nice guy!

I learned a lot from following herp keeping practices and tried to apply some of that to fish keeping. Everytime you get a wild herp in you deworm them and deparatise them. Why not do the same with fish?
The biggest problem in the hobby is we just don't have enough seminars on fish disease and prevention. I have been in the Organized hobby since I was 16. It is a subject I have talked about a thousand times.....
Problem with with any internal disease is unless you have a microscope or send a fecal sample out to a lab you really don't know what you are dealing with. I have read that worm infections sometimes can mimic hex or even bloat! You are right it is a learining process for all of us. I am sure all of us who have been keeping these guys( myself for 30 plus years!) have lost some great animals and have gone crazy trying to figure out what went wrong and how to stop it! I have learned one thing though.....The smartest fishkeeper is the one who never stops asking questions and never stops listening!!!!!

 

[cchhcc]

VRCW, just make sure you don't paint the addition of vitamins, minerals, and trace elements in a poor light. The nutritional profile you listed is superior to the totality of the fresh items you described, and I think you indicated you additionally provide pellets. So, who is to say where your results are coming from?

I think my point is pellets are basically a complete diet. The addition of vegetable matter is never bad, but great results can be found with pellets alone. With the exception of fresh veggies, I have honestly found nothing but diminishing results the more I vary the diet of my fish. I must confess I still feed mysis shrimp from time to time, but I'm also quite sure that's for my enjoyment (watching the fish chase the shrimp around) rather than for the benefit of my fish.

It is easy enough to split a few fry into separate tanks and raise them over a year or two with differing foods. It was a cool experiment years ago when prepared foods aren't what they are today. Now, such an experieent is pretty much a waste of time as the outcome is already known, but it would be a good exercise for anyone in doubt.

Keep in mind, we are specifically talking about Herichthys here. My dovii does great on foods that many of my other fish would struggle with. The benefit of some of the better pellets is in their digestibility, so you don't have to concern yourself with tailoring foods for each and every fish in your tank.

Also, regarding the perceived health of one's fish being superior to others, IMO many to most of the fish I see on this site are grossly overfed and almost certainly suffering from fatty liver disease (not saying that means you of course). So without the establishment of an agreeable definition of "healthy" such a discussion wouldn't be very fruitful!

 

[cchhcc]

NorCaliCichlids
Liquid Flagyl is really hard to get! Use to come out of mexico....Haven't seen it at a Reptile Expo in years! Flubendazole is avialable from Charles Harrison. I will get you his email. He is a killifish guy from St Louis. Real nice guy!

I learned a lot from following herp keeping practices and tried to apply some of that to fish keeping. Everytime you get a wild herp in you deworm them and deparatise them. Why not do the same with fish?
The biggest problem in the hobby is we just don't have enough seminars on fish disease and prevention. I have been in the Organized hobby since I was 16. It is a subject I have talked about a thousand times.....
Problem with with any internal disease is unless you have a microscope or send a fecal sample out to a lab you really don't know what you are dealing with. I have read that worm infections sometimes can mimic hex or even bloat! You are right it is a learining process for all of us. I am sure all of us who have been keeping these guys( myself for 30 plus years!) have lost some great animals and have gone crazy trying to figure out what went wrong and how to stop it! I have learned one thing though.....The smartest fishkeeper is the one who never stops asking questions and never stops listening!!!!!

Good post. I still struggle trying to convince people that the wild fish they just bought are almost certainly carrying parasites. Unless the seller dewormed them and otherwise prophylactically treated them, such fish have an infection rate of nearly 100% (at low levels of course). What once was manageable in the wild becomes a problem after the stress of collection, shipping, and acclimation.

......but don't take my word for it....ask a Vet!

 

[VRWC]

VRCW, just make sure you don't paint the addition of vitamins, minerals, and trace elements in a poor light. The nutritional profile you listed is superior to the totality of the fresh items you described, and I think you indicated you additionally provide pellets. So, who is to say where your results are coming from?

I think my point is pellets are basically a complete diet. The addition of vegetable matter is never bad, but great results can be found with pellets alone. With the exception of fresh veggies, I have honestly found nothing but diminishing results the more I vary the diet of my fish. I must confess I still feed mysis shrimp from time to time, but I'm also quite sure that's for my enjoyment (watching the fish chase the shrimp around) rather than for the benefit of my fish.

It is easy enough to split a few fry into separate tanks and raise them over a year or two with differing foods. It was a cool experiment years ago when prepared foods aren't what they are today. Now, such an experieent is pretty much a waste of time as the outcome is already known, but it would be a good exercise for anyone in doubt.

Keep in mind, we are specifically talking about Herichthys here. My dovii does great on foods that many of my other fish would struggle with. The benefit of some of the better pellets is in their digestibility, so you don't have to concern yourself with tailoring foods for each and every fish in your tank.

Also, regarding the perceived health of one's fish being superior to others, IMO many to most of the fish I see on this site are grossly overfed and almost certainly suffering from fatty liver disease (not saying that means you of course). So without the establishment of an agreeable definition of "healthy" such a discussion wouldn't be very fruitful!

I agree that the pellets are a complete diet...I was merely stating that with the proper knowledge of a particular species diet, other things can be fed as well without harm.

And I definitely wasnt claiming to have superior fish, just saying they are taken care of about as good as humanly possible and look as good as any Ive seen, which I attribute to consistent weekly water changes and their varied diet.

 

[cchhcc]

I agree that the pellets are a complete diet...I was merely stating that with the proper knowledge of a particular species diet, other things can be fed as well without harm.

And I definitely wasnt claiming to have superior fish, just saying they are taken care of about as good as humanly possible and look as good as any Ive seen, which I attribute to consistent weekly water changes and their varied diet.

Yes then... I agree as long as you have and keep in mind specific knowledge of your species you can safely consider other foods.

 

[Snowflake311]

I just want to add you can never be 100% sure what parasite (if any) you are dealing with unless you have checked it under a microscope. So if you can not look at the poop under a micro scope you don't know what you are dealing with. it could be a few differant kinds of Flagellates. Spironucleus is the more common one found in aquarium fish.

Medicated food is the best way to treat for internal parasites and internal bacteria that is a fact. Medicated food with clean water is the best.

Good luck