Long term effects of hard water on SA cichlids?

[FluffySackson]

Having kept and bred all three of those species extensively in hard water with a high pH, I can tell you that you won't have any issues long-term as long as you keep up with your regular water changes and provide a good diet. I've got 6 - 7 year old pairs of wild Heros living in my water with a pH of 7.8+ and they don't have HITH or anything. Acaras and angels, especially tank-bred ones, are very hardy.

However, there are several species that are not as forgiving long-term. Oscars are one, and sometimes I think it may come down to people slacking off on clean water and good food. It's hard to say for sure. But I found personally that some species will eventually give you issues. This includes some wild geos (winemilleri eventually developed HITH for me), H. psittacus, and large lugubris type pikes. I also avoid all Satanoperca and Uaru now. I've had great success with Heros, Mesonauta, and several acara types. Some fish are just more adaptable than others.

Hardness also plays a role. If you have a high hardness, adjusting the pH is not as easy as filtering through peat or adding driftwood. You'd need to remove the buffering capacity of the water first by stripping out some of the hardness (probably with RODI) and then the pH would fall easier. I also think hardness may be just as important in some cases, or maybe even moreso, for some species. Even though I have a high pH, my hardness in my new house is moderate compared to where I used to live, and so I've been able to spawn a lot of species that usually give people with hard water issues. For instance, I never have to use RO to get discus eggs to hatch in my water because it's soft enough that they don't have a problem.

I don't think you'll have an issue with the species mentioned. Keep nitrates below 20ppm (better if they're 10ppm or less), feed a variety of foods and make sure they get plenty of vitamins, and they should be okay.

As Duane mentioned, blackwater fish come from waters where bacterial and viral growth are inhibited. Water has been described from those areas as being like "slightly contaminated distilled water." You take a fish from that habitat and place it into water where bacteria thrives, and the fishes' immune system is inundated by a whole host of nasty stuff that it's never dealt with before. This is why I am a firm believer in huge, frequent water changes. The best way to reduce bacterial and viral loads in your tank is to remove them with water changes. Let your water quality falter and blackwater fish will quickly wilt.

I've successfully kept satanoperca in hard water with parameters similar to yours. However, my attempts at breeding them were unsuccessful and since I've sold off all of my geos and I'm not too big into the freshwater hobby anymore. Nowadays, the only freshwater fish I keep are Central Americans which are originally found in hard water.

 

[RD.]

Your short term experience with that species isn't exactly what most experienced hobbyists would consider a long term success story, fluffy.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/satanoperca-daemon-story.596625/

But thanks for the bump, more people considering some of these species should take heed to Ryan & Duane's comments.

 

[Frank Castle]

Many Central and North American cichlids do well in harder water, as do the species from west of the Andes such as festae and Andinoacara, so you are not limited to only African rift lake species. I live near Lake Gatun in Panama, and pH in the lake can hit almost 9 at certain times of year, and many of the waters in Mexico are highly alkaline.

I bought these fish because they were well suited to the water at my last house and since my new house in only a few miles away I didn't think there would be much difference. I will definitely go for African cichlids if I change my stock since this water better suits them but I really like my current stock so I am hoping they'll be ok

i woud MUCH rather keep CA and Andinoacara/Festae than Rift Lake species LOL So much more personality and intelligence.....buuuuuuuut a little size difference

 

[RD.]

Boulengerochromis microlepis, is one of the largest species of cichlid on the planet, and found in the Rift Lakes.

 

[FluffySackson]

Boulengerochromis microlepis, is one of the largest species of cichlid on the planet, and found in the Rift Lakes.

The "micro" in its name is ironic in the least.

 

[duanes]

The name microlepis means small scales, and has nothing to do with the size of the cichlid.
They reach about 3 ft in length, and with good water quality, this takes about 3 years.
It is theorized that at maturity (3 years) they spawn, and after the young are raised to the independent stage, the parents normally die.

 

[neutrino]

i woud MUCH rather keep CA and Andinoacara/Festae than Rift Lake species LOL So much more personality and intelligence.....buuuuuuuut a little size difference

I've kept both rift lake and new worlds, both for many years, and most of my favorite species are new worlds, so I generally agree as far as personal preference. But-- I can't fully agree on this. Most people who say this are thinking mainly of haps, peacocks, mbuna, etc, most of which have fairly repetitive, and what can eventually seem monotonous, behavior, at least in a tank setting. But quite a few Tanganyikans are pretty intelligent and have very interesting behaviors, though most of them won't be wet pets in the same way as new worlds. However, Cyphotilapia, for example, are among the most intelligent cichlids I've ever had, varied personalities, varied moods, very curious by nature, some of them will invent games to amuse themselves or to get your attention, etc, all signs of fish intelligence. It's just that the average person who has a frontosa or two doesn't pay much attention to them or doesn't keep them in a tank where they get to see this, so the myth gets repeated that they're lazy or stupid-- wrong.

 

[Frank Castle]

I've kept both rift lake and new worlds, both for many years, and most of my favorite species are new worlds, so I generally agree as far as personal preference. But-- I can't fully agree on this. Most people who say this are thinking mainly of haps, peacocks, mbuna, etc, most of which have fairly repetitive, and what can eventually seem monotonous, behavior, at least in a tank setting. But quite a few Tanganyikans are pretty intelligent and have very interesting behaviors, though most of them won't be wet pets in the same way as new worlds. However, Cyphotilapia, for example, are among the most intelligent cichlids I've ever had, varied personalities, varied moods, very curious by nature, some of them will invent games to amuse themselves or to get your attention, etc, all signs of fish intelligence. It's just that the average person who has a frontosa or two doesn't pay much attention to them or doesn't keep them in a tank where they get to see this, so the myth gets repeated that they're lazy or stupid-- wrong.

I like Frontosa

 

[Beetlebug515]

For the love of God someone sticky this. Unless it has already been stickied, in which case ignore me completely. I don't remember seeing all of the hard water information anywhere. I have seen, and thoroughly read, the hith stuff though.

 

[Frank Castle]

For the love of God someone sticky this. Unless it has already been stickied, in which case ignore me completely. I don't remember seeing all of the hard water information anywhere. I have seen, and thoroughly read, the hith stuff though.

Agreed.

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